HoneyBook vs. Dubsado: Wedding Business Automation Tips with Chloe Gandal

Kevin Dennis (0:0.757)

All right, folks, welcome to another episode of Mind Your Wedding Business. We have the one and only Chloe Gandall. Did I say it? Gandall? I'm close. I think I got it right one of those times. Yeah, with it's Chloe G is her company name. So Chloe, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Chloe (0:7.756)

Yeah, all of your buzz.

Chloe (0:15.064)

Hello, thank you so much for having me on, Kevin. So excited to be here in the new year. So essentially, I am a client experience strategist for wedding businesses. What that means is that I do implementation and strategy within your CRM. So I primarily work in Dubsado and HoneyBook. Those are the two main, I think, CRMs that are the most prevalent in our business, in our industry. And we do setups.

within those two softwares for wedding businesses. Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (0:47.031)

That's amazing. Well, it's funny because I was mentioning to you before we got on is we use software for our company for years now called Flex Rental Solutions, which is inventory based software. there's a lot of like, it's not a very good CRM. so we all went to wedding MBA. And that was the one thing we came back was we need to

Chloe (0:57.464)

Okay.

Kevin Dennis (1:10.941)

Automate we need to get that, know, like better and so we're unfortunately gonna have to go with two platforms in order to do that so I was very excited to interview you today because I'm we're we're kind of curious about which platform to go with we've been kind of leaning towards Dubsado, but I'm kind of excited to hear what you have to say. So, alright

Chloe (1:29.580)

Okay, perfect. That'll be great.

Kevin Dennis (1:30.881)

So I know we were talking about animation today, but can you tell us about some of the programs, obviously HoneyBook, Dubsado, is there any others out there that might help winning pros automate tasks?

Chloe (1:40.814)

Yes, so some of the other ones that I hear about are 17 hats is another like CRM. I know a lot of people use, a lot of photographers use PixiSet when they start out because they have some CRM capabilities, but similar to what you're dealing with, it's not as good.

Kevin Dennis (1:47.671)

Hmm.

Kevin Dennis (1:57.335)

Probably would like me. Yeah.

Chloe (2:4.206)

And those are kind of the main ones. then a lot of the time it's kind of just like a cobbled together like docu-sign and a QuickBooks invoice and everything else is done manually via email and like Canva, PDFs. The DIYs.

Kevin Dennis (2:20.045)

Well, you know our wedding industry so well. think a lot of us can relate to that. Yeah, no, it's good. All right, so when it comes to automating our business, obviously it's about getting time back, probably better customer service. So what is the first steps when it comes to automation that we need to really think about?

Chloe (2:24.245)

Sorry if I'm calling you out.

Chloe (2:41.464)

What?

So I think, I mean, I do the things that I hear the most about are time, client experience, and then also kind of like the sanity piece, because sometimes it feels like things are really slipping through the cracks, especially during busy seasons. And so one of the first things that I have my clients do is write out their process and think about it from the very first touch point to the very end. How many emails are you sending?

Kevin Dennis (2:56.640)

Mm-hmm.

Chloe (3:10.110)

What kinds of things are we saying in the emails? Are we using any forms? How are people communicating with you? Do we text? Do we phone call? Is there a consultation call that happens before they book? I mean, all of those little things. And there's so many little tiny pieces that we don't even think about that really when you dive in and take a look at it under a microscope, you kind of find out like, wow, that's actually a lot of different steps we're having to do manually every time we have a client.

Kevin Dennis (3:27.359)

Hmm.

Kevin Dennis (3:40.555)

Yeah, I think that's kind of the biggest thing. let's think about the inquiry process. There's probably, how can we save time with our website inquiries? Because those are, think, in our company, one of the biggest time suckers.

Chloe (3:55.020)

Yeah, yeah, inquiry process is huge. would say inquiry and then the follow-up side of inquiry is one of the biggest things that we work on. So some of the things that I like to automatically include in that inquiry workflow are going to be obviously like an inquiry form. So definitely having some organized fashion to collect all the information instead of just send me an email because that gets lost in the inbox.

Kevin Dennis (4:0.533)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (4:20.385)

Yeah.

Chloe (4:23.554)

Or a DM, I mean, oh my gosh, the horror. So instead having a form that is connected ideally to a CRM that is gathering that information for you and then having an automatic email that goes back to the client so that they know you have received their form, you're working on it. It doesn't need to commit you one way or the other. Like I'm not a big fan of saying automatically like let's get on a call. I like to encourage my...

Kevin Dennis (4:26.070)

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (4:46.185)

Mm-hmm.

Chloe (4:48.492)

my wedding businesses to qualify their clients before they offer a consultation call. Because we don't have time to get on calls with people who are not qualified, right? So that's another big time suck is the ghosting. Even in the next step, like sending, so when we get to the consultation call process, do you use that out of consultation call invitation? Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (4:58.319)

Exactly.

Kevin Dennis (5:13.312)

We do.

Chloe (5:14.734)

Okay, so I don't know if you have like a schedule or a calendar that you use, but sometimes it can just be like, okay, great, I love Acuity for some of my clients. Yes, Acuity is awesome. So sending out some sort of scheduling software link, know, HoneyBook and Dubsado both have integrated calendar appointment scheduling capabilities. So that's one less thing you have to pay for. You know, we love that, save money.

Kevin Dennis (5:18.815)

We use acuity. Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (5:33.751)

Oh.

so don't need it.

Chloe (5:43.916)

So sending out a scheduler link so that you're not sending three emails, okay, I'm available this day. Okay, what time zone? You know, like that's, we don't need to be sending those emails to people and then tracking people down to get back to you. You send one email, they click the link, they schedule the call, and then they get reminded. The CRM can be set up to remind, which is so incredible. HoneyBook does text automation reminders now, which is really cool. Dipsado doesn't do that yet. We're hoping it will come soon.

Kevin Dennis (5:51.798)

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (6:8.919)

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Chloe (6:13.430)

Um, so just a couple of things that like minimize that back and forth communication. think that's also where people end up losing clients is the back and forth because when someone's inquiring with you, you're probably not the only one they're inquiring with. Um, and if someone beats you to it and gets the client faster down the pipeline, then they'll probably sign the client.

Kevin Dennis (6:30.869)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (6:36.727)

Yeah, it's like we're putting up, like I think in the wedding industry as a whole, we're just not known for good customer service. And when someone does get good customer service, they probably gravitate to that person because we're putting up too many walls. So all right. So what are some best practices for automating all of our tasks?

Chloe (6:47.970)

Yeah. Yeah.

Chloe (6:56.374)

Yeah, so I would say one of the things that I like to mention right off the bat is to start small. Start small with one workflow and give it a try for a little bit, especially if you're doing it on your own and not working with someone who is a professional, because it can get really overwhelming and kind of snowball really fast. I've had that a lot of clients come to me after they've tried doing it themselves and they're in too deep and then like they think they don't

Kevin Dennis (7:16.375)

Mmm.

Chloe (7:25.142)

like automations, but really it's just because they're not the right automations for them. I also like to test everything before going live, obviously, make your own test projects, test everything a couple of times before going live. Again, especially if you're doing it on your own. But I mean, I think the biggest workflows to really, like key pieces to start with are going to be the inquiry.

Kevin Dennis (7:29.675)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (7:43.415)

Hmm.

Chloe (7:54.695)

and then an off-boarding workflow. Surprisingly enough, almost nobody does that. Do you all have an off-boarding workflow?

Kevin Dennis (7:57.224)

Oh.

Kevin Dennis (8:0.511)

Yeah.

We just send them a thank you email and that's it. I mean, it's nothing fancy. I mean, we've been in business for a long time. And so we try to get them to do reviews. Like we'll send a review email. But I was like, we used to do a certain, like when I first started, I did a survey and that's how I grew and learned. And I'm like, why did I stop doing that somewhere part way through? And I'm like, we need to get back to doing a survey and the whole.

Chloe (8:10.818)

Yes.

Kevin Dennis (8:28.437)

Like learn and listen to our clients a little bit better than what we're doing now. So that an off boarding thing would be really, really amazing. Yeah.

Chloe (8:35.438)

Offboarding is huge. Offboarding is huge. I mean, really, if you think about it, it's the last touch point between you and the client. it's kind of like, especially because we're going to send that to them after they got married, usually. I mean, especially in the wedding industry. So it needs to be kind of personal. And also, we're trying to get...

Kevin Dennis (8:43.467)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (8:49.643)

Yeah.

Chloe (9:0.598)

reviews, hear one of the biggest things is that my clients are like, I don't want to track people down for reviews. And I get it, I get it. That is, by the time you get to the wedding day and after that, you're like, okay, I'm done with that client. Move on to the clients that have their wedding day in the next two or three months, right? But I don't think it's fair to our clients to just drop them after their wedding. Like we've been holding them in this whole time. So sending a thank you email, I kind of like to...

Kevin Dennis (9:21.035)

Yeah.

Chloe (9:27.766)

I like to qualify before I send a review request. So we usually do a little feedback form that we request that they fill out. And then if their feedback form is lovely and glowing, we'll send them a request for a review. If it's less lovely and glowing, we'll just say, you so much for filling it out. Best of luck to you. Have a great day. Yeah, we'll learn, we'll apply it. We appreciate, you know,

Kevin Dennis (9:31.019)

Mmm.

Kevin Dennis (9:37.374)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (9:43.543)

Oh, likely.

Yeah. Thank you for the feedback. We'll learn. We'll grow. Yeah.

Chloe (9:56.386)

We are always looking to grow. We'll take this into consideration. Just so that, because reviews are such a make it or break it thing, and if you're still trying to grow your review base to a decent level, just one bad review can really hurt. I like to try and, I have a lot of clients who don't want to request reviews because they're worried about that. So I try and assuage them by offering that feedback form first.

Kevin Dennis (9:56.513)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 10:13

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 10:23

No, I think that's the like I was saying like we started with and that's how we grew we learned Oh We should get a little quicker on this or oh we need to do better at that and you know That's the only way you're gonna you know the good it's always here to we're always I think in the wedding industry We only only want to hear the good. That's all we want to hear We don't want to hear the bad and yeah And I think the bad is where you really start to grow is really where and you where you push yourself. Yeah, so anyway

Chloe (: 10:41

Thank

Chloe (: 10:45

Yep, that's such a good point. Right. Yeah, yeah, it's a huge, huge component. Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 10:52

Yeah, so what are some of the mistakes that you think wedding pros make when they try to automate?

Chloe (: 10:59

Okay, so I think a lot of the CRMs that I see set up when I come in, if I'm not doing a full setup from scratch, if I'm coming in and optimizing or auditing first, one of the biggest things I see is creating the tasks, using tasks in the CRM too strongly. I like to really point out that a CRM is not a project management tool.

Kevin Dennis (: 11:12

Mm-hmm.

Chloe (: 11:28

It should not be used as a project management tool. Those are two completely different things. And if you're using a CRM as a PM, it's not effective. It's not an effective use at all. So I see a lot of that kind of treating the CRM as a project management tool. just basically all the workflows are tasks, a list of tasks for the wedding professional to get through for each client.

Kevin Dennis (: 11:32

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 11:55

Hmm.

Chloe (: 11:56

Hardly any, like, we're not using the emails, we're not using the forms, we're not using the canned email templates that we can write, we're not using the scheduler, and those are, I mean, you're paying for the whole software, right? So we might as well be using every piece of it and getting your money's worth and not just using it for something that it's actually not even built to do.

Kevin Dennis (: 12:20

So they try to create their own or create something that's not there and try to do it. Yeah. Yeah.

Chloe (: 12:26

Yes. Yes. Just like create. Yeah. They just use it as a task list and don't really use it to interface or communicate with the client effectively throughout the project. And then they're like, well, I'm paying for this and I'm doing the automations, but it's not helping me. I'm not saving any time. And it's like, well, that's because we're just not using it in an effective way at all. Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 12:46

That makes sense. I think what we hear a lot in the wedding industry is we like, oh, don't worry about it. What we like to hear in the wedding industry is like everything's personal and we have that personal touch. So how with automation do we keep a personal touch?

Chloe (: 12:53

Yeah.

Chloe (13:0.174)

Mm-hmm.

Chloe (13:4.044)

Yes, that is such a good point. And that is a huge thing that I hear all the time. I don't think I've had a client so far that has not brought up that they want to keep things personal. So one of the biggest building blocks of the automation side is the emails. And those emails, whether you're using Dipsado or HoneyBook or another CRM, are usually pulling from a canned email bank. Canned emails are just pre-written email templates.

Kevin Dennis (: 13:14

Mm-hmm.

Chloe (: 13:35

I've lost my train of thought. Gary, help me. Okay. So, yes, please.

Kevin Dennis (: 13:37

That's OK. Carry.

Kevin Dennis (: 13:43

Want me to ask the question again? It was, I'm moving on to questions. So was, how do we keep our personal touch? All right. Yes. All right. So in the wedding industry, we want everything to be very, very personal. And I think that's where some people put up the wall and say, I don't want to automate because I don't want to lose my personal touch. So how can we keep that personal touch going when we're automating?

Chloe (: 13:52

Yes, thank you. Okay.

Chloe (: 14:12

Yes, such a good question. Because we really, personalization is, I think, one of the key things to keeping the client experience really high and not making people think that you're just sending out robotic emails. We don't want that impression at all. So I like to really customize the canned email templates. Canned emails are those email.

Kevin Dennis (: 14:29

Mm-hmm.

Chloe (: 14:39

prewritten emails that you have created and saved in your CRM. Essentially all CRMs support that. And so the more customized your emails are and the more written in your voice they are, the less prewritten they sound. So I have like templates and then I have all my clients rewrite essentially the templates in their own voice. I mean mine that I send out to my clients sound like I'm texting them.

Kevin Dennis (: 14:47

Mm.

Kevin Dennis (15:5.046)

Mm-hmm.

Chloe (15:9.292)

I write exactly like how I would text someone. So you can be as professional or personal as you want.

Kevin Dennis (15:9.398)

Mm.

Chloe (: 15:19

There is also, of course, that piece of like, okay, but this client said that they want these theme colors and this canned email template doesn't say that. There is a functionality in DevSado and HoneyBook that you can have to manually approve a step. So I like to use that a lot, especially with clients who are new to workflows. And I highly recommend using that when you're new to workflows because you essentially get full control over what gets sent.

Kevin Dennis (: 15:36

Mmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 15:49

Mmm.

Chloe (: 15:49

It's kind of like a little mini pause so that you can take a look and make sure that this email looks perfect for this client before it gets sent out right away. So some of the emails that I like to do, like manual approval, are the one that has the proposal because that's usually getting sent out after a call and you can bring in some details that you talked about on the call. Another one is like the initial welcome email after they've signed and paid. They receive, I like to do like automatically a...

Kevin Dennis (16:3.808)

Mm-hmm.

Chloe (: 16:17

We've received your contract and your payment. Thank you so much, you're booked in. And then right after, in the workflow, there's a manual approval email that allows the wedding creative to go in and really customize to that couple. So it feels super custom. It's their kind of first email in the booked workflow. They usually have a welcome guide that we include in there. So the client is just getting really excited to work with you. Let's see.

Kevin Dennis (: 16:30

Hmm.

Chloe (: 16:44

Those are the big ones. And then obviously the feedback one also, like to customize. I like to allow that one to be customized because you can pull in details from the wedding day and it feels more, if you're asking them to do something for you, it needs to be a little bit custom, right? Like give some, get some. Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 16:51

Mm.

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (17:1.309)

Mm-hmm. No, that makes sense. What do you think most of your clients forget to do during the process that you have to remind them?

Chloe (: 17:10

Oh my goodness, so much. I think mostly, it's funny, we mostly focus on like new inquiry so much, right? Getting the client, signing the client. And then it's like, okay, well now they're signed. Now what? This is really where the experience kind of takes off and should really be escalating instead of like deescalating.

So most of my clients don't really do like a welcome guide. They'll do like a couples questionnaire or a wedding details questionnaires at some point to get more information about the wedding day. But we don't really necessarily have welcome guides often or a working with me guide kind of. So that's a huge one that I end up creating for all of my clients with things like.

expectations. like, are we communicating during our time? Is texting okay? I really don't encourage texting. Are we doing email? Would you like to do like, I don't know, some of my clients use Slack with their clients and things like that. So different communication methods. A timeline so that the client and it doesn't have to be very personal, it can just be like a general timeline of things that you need to keep in mind. And then a lot of my

Kevin Dennis (18:6.860)

Mm.

Kevin Dennis (: 18:21

Mm-hmm.

Chloe (: 18:35

Clients have, you know, one of their biggest complaints is that they get emails all the time about things that they've already told their client. I don't know if you deal with that. Yeah, so that happens all the time. And I think the issue is we end up sending, we end up sending information at the wrong time for the client. It's the right time for us to send it.

Kevin Dennis (: 18:43

Yeah, we do.

Kevin Dennis (: 18:56

Mmm. Oh.

Chloe (: 18:58

But for the client, it's not quite the right time for them to process it because they're obviously, they wouldn't ask if they knew the answer, right? So they need the information delivered in a different way. So yes, I like to send the welcome guide at the beginning for like the type A brides who will like go through right away and read every single last drop. But that's only a certain percentage of your client base. There's a lot of couples who will not read all of that right away.

Kevin Dennis (19:5.237)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 19:20

Yeah.

Chloe (: 19:25

and they're working with multiple vendors and they're getting everyone's welcome guide at once, et cetera. So I also like to do check-in emails and drip out information at the time that the client will need it. So at the six months before the wedding date. And you can do this in both Dubsado and HoneyBook. Set certain emails to be sent out at certain times leading up to the big day, the event date. And it depends on, obviously, the industry of what's included, but.

Kevin Dennis (: 19:35

Mmm.

Chloe (: 19:54

Just kind of having, breaking down that information. If you have another check-in call, letting them know multiple times, you know, this is when we're gonna be checking in. This is when we're gonna be having this call so that they're not like, when are we having the call? You know, all the time.

Kevin Dennis (20:7.425)

Mm-hmm. Or can you send me that photo again? One more, you know, like the one that's on Instagram and the one that's everywhere that they can find it. It's like, no, it's right there under your nose, All right, so now you specialize in HoneyBook and Dubsado. How does a wedding vendor make the decision to go with one or the other?

Chloe (: 20:12

Yes. Yes.

Chloe (: 20:19

Right, right, yes.

Chloe (: 20:32

Yes. Such a good question. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yes. Sounds good. I don't have a favorite child, but I do have one that I use personally. So I'll talk about that. So essentially the way that I like to break down HoneyBook and Depsado is HoneyBook is very aesthetically beautiful. It's simplified. It's streamlined. It's easy to use.

Kevin Dennis (: 20:36

And then a follow-up question will be, do you have a favorite? But anyway.

Kevin Dennis (: 20:45

Okay. Oh.

Chloe (21:2.400)

It's great for businesses who are between one and two years old. I would say if you're getting less than about less than 10 inquiries a month, if you have never used automations before. And yeah, that's kind of the three main ones that I ask when I'm trying to refer one or the other to my clients, because I get that question more than any other question is how do I decide?

Kevin Dennis (: 21:12

Hmm.

Chloe (: 21:32

Um, and then on the other side, Dubsado is better for businesses who've been around for at least a year and a half to two years. Maybe you've gone through a rebrand or like you, you know, you initially had like your Canva brand or your DIY brand and you're paying for a website and branding and all those things. That's kind of a good time to also move to Dubsado. If you're getting more than 10 inquiries a month, just because of the more robust automations, Dubsado is just going to be able to save you a lot more time and help.

Kevin Dennis (: 21:57

Hmm.

Chloe (22:1.570)

you with the management of especially the inquiry process a lot more than HoneyBook will. Dub-Sado is also a bigger learning curve. It's much more complex and there's a lot more nuance to it, which allows us to do more, right, but then there's also more to learn. So if you're looking to like DIY the system, I would say HoneyBook is a great place to start. Get comfortable, get your feet wet with automations.

Kevin Dennis (: 22:15

Mmm.

Chloe (: 22:28

Try things out. Make your canned emails. The smart files are beautiful. And you can brand them quite well now. They have a lot more capabilities than they used to. They have really good integrations these days. So it's a great option. I know lots of people who just use that forever. But a lot of my clients, I will set up their HoneyBook and tell them. Just so you know.

in about a year and a half, you're going to come back to me and we're going to do a Dubsado setup because you're going to grow out of this. So if you're like moving, really trying to scale your business, you have a big goal, you want to grow a team, you want to grow an agency, something to that effect, Dubsado is a better option. Yeah. And then personally, I use Dubsado because, yes, yes, because, um,

Kevin Dennis (: 23:11

Hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 23:15

That was my guess. was like, I bet she uses depth Sado.

Chloe (: 23:21

I really like the robust automations. It's also the more complex of the two, so I like to keep my knowledge really fresh and be using it all the time. And then they allow CSS and HTML customization in your forms, so you can code a lot more and make your forms so much more custom, look very similar to a website style, which I think is really cool. So I like to kind of show off with that too.

Kevin Dennis (: 23:24

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 23:46

Hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 23:50

That's awesome. All right. So we've made our decision. know, some of us are going to go to HoneyBook. Some of us are going to go to DubSado. How long does it take to get it up and running?

Chloe (: 23:51

Yeah.

Chloe (: 23:55

Yep.

Chloe (: 23:59

Great.

Chloe (24:4.398)

Yeah, mean, okay, so up and running, Like, well, let's say the bare minimum. So bare minimum would be having clients be able to pay you, be able to schedule a call with you, and be able to like sign the contract, right? Because like at the end of the day, that's kind of the main basics. And then of course, we add in the rest as we go. Those things.

Kevin Dennis (: 24:14

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 24:25

Mm-hmm.

Chloe (: 24:31

And let's say like a couple of emails as well, because we need to be able to send a couple of emails out. Probably, I mean, not more than about two hours in HoneyBook. Not more than two hours. It depends kind of how tech savvy you are, but they also kind of walk you through it when you first sign up, so that's really nice. Yeah, essentially you just kind of integrate a payment processor.

Kevin Dennis (: 24:44

Okay.

Chloe (: 24:58

and get like a little calendar going. You can integrate with Google Calendar or I believe Microsoft Office Calendar if you're using that already. So that's nice. And then just pull, I like to say like don't reinvent the wheel. Go into your email inbox, into your sent emails and go look at emails you've just recently sent to clients in the last couple of weeks. Copy those, put them into your CRM. You don't need to be writing emails from scratch. Just pull whatever you've already written.

Kevin Dennis (: 25:21

Hmm.

Chloe (: 25:28

and then grow from there after. But if that's a sticking point for people, which it can be, is like staring at a blinking cursor on a blank page, you don't need to make it hard for yourself. Just pull emails you've already sent. On the Dubsado side,

Chloe (: 25:46

I mean, if you already have like a contract and everything written and you're just copying it in, it would probably take maybe three to four hours just because the form setup is a little bit more complex. Yeah. But otherwise everything else, those basic, very simple things are pretty easy to set up. really, the CRMs really start to separate when you get into like the automation, the workflows side of things.

Kevin Dennis (26:1.899)

on gear.

Kevin Dennis (: 26:17

Yeah, crazy. So now, if I was going to hire you to do all of our work, like, is it a couple months to get things really built out, or how long is that process to really...

Chloe (: 26:28

So we do, all of my projects are four weeks long. So it's quick. Generally, yeah, it's all four weeks. We do either like a group of like one offering or up to three offerings. So if you're a photographer and you do maternity and engagement and wedding, those are three different offerings theoretically or sort of.

Kevin Dennis (: 26:32

Oh, wow. OK.

Chloe (: 26:57

And so that would be three different offers. But if you just offer maternity or you just want to try it out for one of those offerings, then we do that. Because each of those has very different processes. yeah, so we consider it kind of like three different things. Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (27:8.117)

responses, yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 27:12

Hmm. All right. And then does do do they have like client portals? Because that's something that our clients are talking to us that we don't have. Because again, we're using an inventory management software, not a CRM. But you know, is that something that they offer as well? Because it seems like clients want one place where all their information is and they don't want to they they don't want to be the one like they used to have the wedding binders and walk around with all their stuff. They don't want to be the one to hold their stuff anymore.

Chloe (: 27:32

Yes.

Chloe (: 27:42

No, they do not. do not. We just want the internet to hold all of our stuff now, don't we? Yeah, so they both offer client portals. HoneyBook is kind of like, their portal is very much like shared with you. So the look is very similar to what you see. And they kind of go on and they can see like the different forms they've filled out. They can check on their invoice. They can view their contract.

Kevin Dennis (: 27:45

Correct. Yep.

Kevin Dennis (28:0.416)

Hmm.

Chloe (: 28:11

You can upload certain things. I'd have to double check. don't want to say something that I am completely wrong about. So I'll hold off on that. But that's that side. So they do have a client portal. Debsato also has a client portal. It's essentially very similar. All your forms, all your email communication back and forth is all managed in there or can be.

Kevin Dennis (: 28:21

That's okay.

Chloe (: 28:39

Any upcoming appointments, invoices, if you have any like links or PDFs that you want to send, it's not a, neither of them are a two way portal. So it's not like a Google drive folder where everyone can just upload everything, right? But when I have clients that need that, I do end up just creating a one-time link to a drive folder. And so we kind of just link out to that drive folder, leave the link in the portal.

Kevin Dennis (: 28:50

Mm. OK.

Kevin Dennis (: 28:55

Gotcha.

Kevin Dennis (29:3.510)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (29:7.774)

Mm-hmm.

Chloe (29:7.800)

so it's easily accessible from the portal. So we kind of have to cobble a couple of things, but for the most part, it does the job.

Kevin Dennis (: 29:10

Cool.

Kevin Dennis (: 29:15

And then you mentioned selecting a payment processor. So if you already are established with someone, they will work with whoever you have establishments with, or do you have to use theirs?

Chloe (: 29:25

They, so they, so HoneyBook has their own now and then they also do partnerships with Stripe and Square and Debsato does partnerships with Stripe and Square. And then I believe Debsato also offers PayPal as a secondary option, but you have to initially be signed up with one or the other already. So it's kind of like the two biggest, the most popular ones are the ones that everyone kind of supports. Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 29:31

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 29:51

what we all use. So, all right. What do you think, like some people like a little bit more advanced been using it? How often do you have to upgrade it? know, you know, are you like, do you send your clients, hey, new feature, we got to go in and fix all your stuff now? Like, how often does that process happen?

Chloe (: 30:13

Yeah, that's such a good question. mean, it's kind of like how fast is that company changing their software, right? So that it does depend a little bit on how quickly they're updating. But for the most part, all of the features that we take advantage of aren't things that are changing dramatically. It's usually things that are changing for the better and might

Kevin Dennis (: 30:20

Mm-hmm.

Chloe (: 30:38

maybe we'll consolidate a couple of steps or like, oh, actually we don't need to do a workaround for this anymore because it's actually just supported in a regular function. So that's great. But it's not like a required update either. So it's usually things that aren't going to affect your experience at all unless you want to take advantage of something new. So it's not huge. Debsado just released an app over the summer and I mean, that hasn't changed.

Kevin Dennis (: 30:48

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (31:6.234)

Oh.

Chloe (31:8.044)

the process, but it's made it so much easier. We can go in and do all sorts of things on the app now. You don't have to be logged into a desktop computer, which is just incredible. that, I mean, you know, lot of things that are just updating for the better, not necessarily changing and having to like, you know, change everything.

Kevin Dennis (: 31:11

Yes.

Kevin Dennis (: 31:26

Well, lot of us wedding people meet with our clients like on site, you know, so maybe like even having that app is going to be huge because they can go in and make some notes or do little things right then and there and it's all going to get saved in the one spot. So that was very smart on their part to create create the app.

Chloe (: 31:39

Yeah. Yes, it's huge. They took a long time to develop it because they wanted to do it right. And because Dipsado is so layered, it was a lot of things that I think they wouldn't have been capable of doing if they had rushed it. It would have just been like a half-baked app, but this app is, it's very, very good. And they're, it's very capable and allows you to be super mobile and still use them. Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 31:49

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (32:4.981)

All right, so we've talked about all kinds of things. What have we not talked about? What are we missing? feel like we've, know, what was clients come to you with, I guess, pinpoints or pain points after setting up or any of that kind of stuff? Like, I feel like...

Chloe (: 32:13

Mmm.

Chloe (: 32:22

Um, let's see. So one of the features that both offer that I think I don't mention as much because it's like not as glamorous, but it's incredibly time-saving and helpful is they're like auto-fill or smart field feature where you can map different fields that your clients are filling out to other parts of the CRM experience. So, um, like in, for example, in Dubsoto,

Kevin Dennis (: 32:31

Mmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 32:38

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 32:46

Oh.

Chloe (: 32:50

you can actually create custom mapped fields. So I have custom mapped fields. So we are asking clients, you know, what time is your photographer arriving? And then in their final details, in their final details questionnaire, and then in their final email before the event date, it's confirming, okay, your photographer is arriving at blank time, and it's automatically pulling from what the client had originally filled out. So you don't have to go in.

Kevin Dennis (: 33:13

Oh.

Chloe (: 33:15

and track down all that information and put it back in and copy it from here and copy it from there. A lot of photographers do like a timeline that they send to their clients and this kind of feature just saves incredible amounts of time from having to just like review and copy and paste things over. It's just automatic. So I really like that feature.

Kevin Dennis (: 33:32

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 33:39

That seems like you're awesome. That would be really, like you said, time saving. So how much time do you think the average wedding person can save with automations?

Chloe (: 33:41

Yeah. Yeah.

Chloe (: 33:50

Oh my goodness. mean, I think, I mean, I always say easily five hours a week, easily, right off the bat. Yeah. Just email communication. takes so much time.

Kevin Dennis (: 33:55

Wow, really?

Kevin Dennis (34:1.856)

It is, it is the worst.

Chloe (34:3.598)

Emails, yeah, because if we're sending, I mean, if your inbox numbers drop by, I would say, easily 25 % from people that don't need to be emailing you those questions anymore, or you don't need to have a conversation about an appointment time, you just allow the client to be so much more capable and self-reliant, and then the system manages the reminders.

So really, you don't have to worry about it until they show up on your calendar, or they sign and pay, or it's like some 911 situation where they really need your help. how often does that happen? Most of the time, we're just being bogged down by the day to day. I mean, yeah, easily five hours a week at least. Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 34:32

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 34:43

Of course, yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 34:52

Wow, that's, I mean, I wasn't expecting that. I mean, that's almost a whole work day, you know, that you get back. Yeah, yeah, it really is.

Chloe (: 34:58

Yeah, it's huge. It's huge. Yeah, because we're pulling big long days and if you can shave off five hours a week, you know, what would you have time for with five hours a week, right? Like, that'd be so nice.

Kevin Dennis (35:9.597)

Oh, God, you can get projects done. can get, you know, you just get so much more. mean, that's the thing. We in the wedding industry, so much of us are just workaholics where we just go, go, go, go, go, and we don't stop. then until we're collapsed after, you know, working three, four weddings on the weekend and, you know, going. to have a little bit of that time to, you know, and to grow, you know, so do do businesses ever outgrow?

Chloe (: 35:32

Yes.

Kevin Dennis (: 35:36

their CRM and have to go to a bigger one? Like you were mentioning HoneyBook, like, will the Sado allow you to continue to grow with it?

Chloe (: 35:45

For the most part, yes, they're not, I don't feel nearly as limited when I'm doing a Debsato setup. I've done Debsato setups for pretty big teams before, hair and makeup artists who have 10, 15, 20 artists that have been hired. Because once you get to that point, we're also probably bringing in a project management tool, so that helps manage the team side. And so then really we're just still looking at the inquiries, the client numbers, and those numbers,

Kevin Dennis (: 35:57

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (36:6.526)

Mm-hmm.

Chloe (: 36:15

Yes, they go up, but as long as you have your automations down pat, it doesn't really increase that much on your part. Then you're just limited by how much time you have in your schedule. Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 36:21

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 36:26

You mentioned project management a few times. Is there one that you like or is there one that integrates with HoneyBook or Dubsado?

Chloe (: 36:35

So let's see. I know Asana has an integration with HoneyBook. HoneyBook's working on doing more integrations. I mean, I think the best project management tool is the one that works well for you. It's really hard to pick one. I personally use ClickUp. I love ClickUp. I know people that absolutely die by Airtable, Asana, Notion. And all of those, while they may not all have

Kevin Dennis (: 36:41

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 36:50

Mm-hmm.

Chloe (37:3.398)

a direct line to the CRM using something like Zapier, a third party connection software, even just something very simple, an easy Zap that's like one step. It doesn't need to be complex. Can save a ton of time just grabbing all the information. For example, someone inquires with you in WSATO, they sign and pay. Okay, once they sign and pay, add them in to...

Kevin Dennis (: 37:10

Mm-hmm.

Chloe (: 37:29

Click up as a new client and use this folder with all these tasks in there. Put it into their client folder and then you're all set. You don't need to do all of those manual tasks. That might have saved you 15 or 20 minutes just copying all that information over.

Kevin Dennis (: 37:34

Hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 37:43

And that's what happens to us with our inventory management software. We have to go in and manually add every time the client books, we're manually importing all that kind of stuff. that's where it is. that's the thing is, ideally, it'd be nice if there was one software that just does everything. I think it's impossible. because it's, yeah.

Chloe (: 37:55

It's a lot of manual work.

Chloe (38:8.224)

It is, it is, and it wouldn't, you know, a jack of all trades is a master of none, right? So like, it's just not going to be what we want it to be. So it's best to just pick and choose the things that you like. And then you can even, then you have more customization power because you could choose like, Oh, well, I really like how HoneyBook has this, but then I really want like a really like robust project management software. And I really like Airtable. So you can kind of then have actually more control by picking and choosing the little bits.

Kevin Dennis (: 38:12

No, no.

Kevin Dennis (: 38:31

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 38:37

And then outside maybe the project management piece, is there any other softwares that you would need to add on or things that you can use with HoneyBook or Dubsado?

Chloe (: 38:48

Yeah, so let's see. have, so for wedding planners, particularly, aisle planner is a really big one. And then that's the one is another one. Those are both kind of event planning softwares. And they kind of take over after the client signs and pays. You kind of move into.

Kevin Dennis (: 38:58

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (39:4.438)

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 39:14

Mmm.

Chloe (: 39:15

the event planning software because that's where the seating chart is and all the vendor contracts and all those things. So depending on your industry, there might be another supplemental software that might be necessary. For photographers, another one is like a gallery delivery software, videographers gallery delivery software, PicTime or Pixies ad or something like that. So sometimes there's an additional one.

Kevin Dennis (: 39:20

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 39:37

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 39:41

Mm-hmm.

Chloe (: 39:45

for hair and makeup artist acuity if there's any sort of team because HoneyBook and Obsado do not do team scheduling in any way shape or form, unfortunately. So some sort of, yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 39:52

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 39:56

But I was just going to say, you, and Acuity will work with Tubsado?

Chloe (40:2.924)

I mean, so what we do is like, we take the scheduling portion out of Dubsado for an in-person scheduler and instead we just link in an Acuity link. We make it look just like a Dubsado link, like it's a little button, it doesn't really, it doesn't feel any different, but then the client gets brought into Acuity to schedule. So that's kind of, yeah, it's just a workaround. They can, until, yeah.

Kevin Dennis (40:9.572)

Oh, gotcha.

Kevin Dennis (: 40:17

Mm-hmm.

Kevin Dennis (: 40:22

Gotcha.

A workaround. Yep.

All right, what are, okay, we're getting to the end. Okay, just your top three tips that you think someone needs to do, everything we talked about so far today.

Chloe (: 40:33

Okay.

Chloe (: 40:42

Yep, okay, so I would say keep your brand voice really strong throughout. It doesn't need to feel robotic. It can feel as personal as you want it to be. I use the manual approval function so that you have final say and control over when things are sending and how they sound. And...

Kevin Dennis (: 40:55

Hmm.

Chloe (41:8.632)

Start small, pick one little tiny area of your pipeline and write every step out that the client goes through, that you go through and start looking at ways that you can automate that little tiny step and then you can grow from there.

Kevin Dennis (: 41:24

All right. All right. And I'm going tell you my tip. I'm going to get dubbed Sado. And I think I'm going to hire you. And I'm going to hire you to do it. So that's how we're going to do this. You just convinced me. mean, feel like, well, we just keep griping. We have our weekly meetings. And we're like, this takes too long. This is taking too Because we're so married to our, we have to know.

Chloe (: 41:29

Okay.

Chloe (: 41:33

Yes! Love to hear it. Love to hear it.

Kevin Dennis (: 41:51

how many of chandeliers we have available on July 19th of next year, we can't get away from that software. It's vital, we can't run our business without it, but yet we kept trying to piece-mail it and make it work, it just, we're beating a dead horse and it's not working. So we need to, yeah.

Chloe (: 42:11

And that's okay. That's okay. It's good. Like, it's okay to come to that realization point, right? That's a really important pivotal step to get to. So, good.

Kevin Dennis (: 42:18

Yes, I agree. We'll get there. all right. So how do people like myself go and find you, Chloe, to hire you and gobble you up and make us get more time in our lives?

Chloe (: 42:27

Yeah.

Chloe (: 42:31

Sure, yes. So my website is itschloe.com, I-T-S-C-H-L-O-E-G.com. Same on Instagram, it's itschloe.g. Those are my two real spots. But I also wanted to mention I have a free setup guide for HoneyBook and Dubsado with a couple of easy actionable steps if you're just starting out in either CRM that are super helpful and will help you like get started down the right path.

Kevin Dennis (: 42:52

Hmm.

Chloe (43:0.110)

to be using those helpful. Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (43:2.935)

Perfect. All right. Well, and before we go, I always like to ask everyone what their favorite app is. Yours can't be DubSado or HoneyBook. So like right now, what is something that you're using? Personal? It could be personal or business, something that you can't live without.

Chloe (: 43:18

I'd have to say Open Table because I'm going out to lots of restaurants right now for the holidays and I just love like yesterday I was on a plane and I was like booking all my restaurants for the next few weeks just to make sure that I you know wasn't like left out in the cold on Christmas Eve for restaurant reservations so I'm a big fan of Open Table.

Kevin Dennis (: 43:21

Hehehehehe

Kevin Dennis (: 43:34

That's right. Good for you. I do love, well, it's anywhere I travel. That's the first one I go to. And then people are like, you got to use Rezzy and there's not a lot of restaurants on Rezzy. Yeah, Open Table is the one. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's like Google and all that kind of stuff. yeah. Anyway, all right. It's been a pleasure. Thank you for having us. Happy New Year, everyone. And go out and...

Chloe (: 43:45

No, no, I refuse. Opentable is the best. They're like the OG.

Chloe (: 43:55

Yeah, exactly.

Chloe (: 43:59

You too.

Kevin Dennis (44:4.065)

get a CRM and hire Chloe. All right, we'll talk to you soon. Bye.

Chloe (44:7.618)

Thank you. Bye.