The Trust Recession & How Wedding Vendors Are Using Social Media with Adrienna McDermott & Andrea Shah

Kevin Dennis (: 00:38

All right, folks, welcome to another episode of Mind Your Wedding Business. I'm here with Adriana McDermott and Andrea Shah. So we are here to just talk, talk, talk, I think, what we're going to do today. We've been talking behind the scenes before we started. We got a lot of dish to get out. But we're really here, I guess, our title of our episode is Trust the Recession and How Wedding Vendors Are Using Social Media. But before we go, I'm going to let the ladies introduce themselves and tell them a little bit about themselves and how we got you here today.

Adrienna McDermott (: 01:09

I'll go first. I'm Adriana. I own a marketing agency called ava and the Bee. So I started as a wedding vendor in 2009 and I guess never looked back. I drank the Kool-Aid and here we are. I did weddings. I owned a wedding planning portal and brought a boutique company and now we do all things marketing.

Kevin Dennis (: 01:20

Yeah.

I love it. Or did you drink the poison?

Adrienna McDermott (: 01:31

It was a mix of poison and koi that I was handed to at a young age and told would be

fun because that's what TV said.

Kevin Dennis (: 01:40

I love it.

Andrea (: 01:41

Honestly, it's all about like bride wars and that sort of thing, right? Like I remember I use that as like ⁓ a note all the time. So I'm Andrea Shah. I'm a copywriter for wedding vendors. And unlike Adriana, I actually don't have a background in the industry. I just kind of came to it by chance. I was, during the pandemic and I was really tired of doing stuff for people who were doing stuff that existed only like online.

Kevin Dennis (: 01:44

You

Adrienna McDermott (: 01:45

Yeah.

Andrea (: 02:05

And so the first wedding industry client I got, that was it. I was obsessed. I was like, you're going outside and touching grass and doing real things. And, and so I've been doing it ever since. And I've just really kind of dived into the industry and yeah, it's, it's a lot of fun.

Kevin Dennis (: 02:11

Yeah ⁓

We're fun people. Bless wedding people.

Andrea (: 02:21

You are, well, all my

friends are jealous. They're like, you have the best job because like you go to a work event and it's really beautiful and really fun and the food is good and like there's flowers and entertainment. And I'm like, yeah, you're right. It is.

Kevin Dennis (: 02:34

I will say we do throw on good events, but I will say I've been to my fair share of very bad industry events as well. it's either, I feel like we're either amazing or we suck. anyway, ⁓ there's no in between. All right, so first, can each of you share a little bit about your background and then what led you to focus on helping wedding vendors with their marketing and messaging?

Adrienna McDermott (: 03:00

Ooh, so for me, it kind of fell in my lap. So I had recently sold my wedding planning for Ombredo company and didn't really know what I was going to be when I grew up. And so I just had a bunch of friends who were like, Hey, you built this business. you market for me? And at the time I was like, of course I can. This is fun. ⁓ And so I just really lucked out that I had some really great friends and

Kevin Dennis (: 03:20

Hmm.

Adrienna McDermott (: 03:29

many of which are still my clients today, eight or so years later, which is pretty cool to see them grow from 2018 to now. But that's kind of how I got started. I feel like Andrea and I actually just connected in the online space. And for me, I think Andrea is one of the smartest people in the world. So I just think she's so smart. So I feel like I just had a girl crush on her for a while.

Andrea (: 03:54

Likewise, and we're on Voxer like 24-7 messaging each other screenshots and that sort of thing. So this is probably going to be like our Voxer convos come to life. ⁓ I ended up with an elopement photographer as a client. I had started doing copywriting for websites and you wouldn't believe some of the unexciting stuff I did, but dentists need websites too. And eventually I got an elopement photographer client and from there it just kind of snowballed. She recommended a few friends to me, another photographer.

Adrienna McDermott (: 04:02

Yes.

Andrea (: 04:22

Allotment photographers are such a cool like little niche within the industry because they're like half wedding pros and then half there sometimes just out there on their own doing their own thing. And it was a really enjoyable ⁓ thing and her business thrived during the pandemic. So she had really taken off and I've been with her for three years now and watched her grow. And I started to see where there were so many people who'd entered the industry who needed to pivot their marketing a little bit. And now I'm telling people it's like, it's been

that's working now and not in: 2018

Kevin Dennis (: 05:00

No, and that's a really good point because everyone said, ⁓ we're going to get back to 2019 and things will get back to the way. And it's just like every year brings a whole new challenge and that's something totally different that you never thought we were going to experience. I'm glad you brought that up because everyone, think, feels like eventually we will get back to 2019. And I don't think we ever will.

Adrienna McDermott (: 05:23

No, no. But I think that's a good thing. I think we need to be excited that we work in an industry that does evolve because so many people outside of industries, they get bored because it doesn't evolve. ours does. Every year we have a new batch of leads and that's unlike almost any other industry. We're not as consumer product like Goldfish. It's a new audience every year.

Kevin Dennis (: 05:26

Yeah.

No, well, we, that and we're always looking, you know, we're not working with the same clients, maybe the same families, you know, but yeah, you know, it's one and done, man. You're the most, it's funny, you're the most important thing to these couples on the day of and then after the wedding, you're just, you're onto the next one. anyway. All right, so social media is often where couples first encounter a vendor. How has the role of social media shifted in building or breaking trust?

Adrienna McDermott (: 06:21

Who should we talk about the trust recession Andrea? I feel like we have to at least start in club. So I think one of the biggest things that vendors are in shock is how little couples trust us. it is part of it was obviously the pandemic. We all knew someone who had a bad experience with a wedding vendor during the pandemic. So that I think at first we were like, oh, we got over that in 2022. No, it got worse because

Andrea (: 06:24

think we should. I think we should.

Kevin Dennis (: 06:49

Mm-hmm.

Adrienna McDermott (: 06:51

We all doubled our rates, tripled our pricing overnight, and then got frustrated when the economy, like everything went back to normal in terms of like the number of clients and there was no more boom. And then we all had 3X our prices and we're concerned why everyone asking what our pricing is. ⁓ And if you just spend a few minutes online, on Reddit, on a Facebook group, in the news, you're gonna see.

a horror story, like the Washington Post over the summer. It was in New Jersey. I believe it ended up being 52 couples are without their wedding photos. Yeah, and this was a photographer. 52 couples don't have photos from their wedding in the Jersey Philly area. And like, the people who read that are the same people that are in your inbox. So they see red flags, you see red flags. We're all waving these red flags, but we're not doing anything about it. Like,

Kevin Dennis (: 07:26

Venue, yeah, I heard about that, right? Yeah.

Yeah, photographer.

Adrienna McDermott (: 07:46

We have to be the people that allow them to trust us, which I know we'll talk about a bit today, but.

Andrea (: 07:52

And the other thing I chime in with is they also see, and it changes by like $1,000 every year, but they see that the average wedding is $30,000. That statistic is everywhere. And I actually think it might be true because for some people, their wedding is going to the courthouse. For some people, their wedding is a really small dinner with family and friends. And if they really do only spend $5,000 on a tire and a restaurant dinner and whatever, that counts too. But.

What couples see on their Instagram feed, what they see on TikTok, what they see in Vogue is not costing $30,000. It's not sometimes costing $300,000. Sometimes it's a $2 million wedding, but there's no handy little price tag attached. And so they feel like they've been given a bait and switch when in reality, it's just that social media doesn't really paint a full picture of what was spent, what was achieved.

And there's some things with vendor categories where they have no knowledge of what it costs. Like, they don't know what it costs to fly a 10-piece band to Italy and put them up and deal with all that. They don't know how much it costs to a bouquet made of Lily of the Valley in September. Like, they have no idea. And you know that, so it seems really intuitive to you. But they're like, wait a second. I can't achieve this for $300? How is that possible? And I get why they feel like it's a bit of a bait and switch.

Kevin Dennis (: 08:53

you

Yeah, so, well, I was going to say, so, I mean, even like I'm probably guilty. We always show our nicer work on our Instagram feeds, you know? So what can me or all the other vendors do to help build trust with these folks?

Adrienna McDermott (: 09:13

100%.

Andrea (: 09:31

I saw some incredible content the other day. I feel like florists are leading the charge on this because their prices are so variable and people don't really understand what florals cost, what the labor is, what the mechanics are, all that. But I've seen florists making reels online that are like, here's what you can get if you spend $12,000 with me. And they'll walk you through literally all the pieces that were included line item by line item and show them to you. It's also really pretty and fun to watch. It's also very visually appealing and it-

Kevin Dennis (: 09:56

Mmm.

Andrea (: 10:01

gives you, it's like this double whammy because it educates but it also shows you what they're capable of and so you're seeing that. And so I feel like florists have been phenomenal with that in particular. ⁓ And it's a tricky balance, right? You wanna educate but at the same time you don't wanna be super didactic. Like I've seen people go too far in the other direction where photographers are like trying to explain, I spend this much on equipment and this much on insurance and this much on.

by listing with Zola and all that and that's why I charge that much and I get it and I understand all that now but I feel like the average client is going to be like yeah of course you have business expenses you know.

Kevin Dennis (: 10:37

Yeah, I

was gonna say the average client probably can care two shits about that. I mean they really don't.

Adrienna McDermott (: 10:44

No, and at the end of the day, that's the cost of you running a business. It's not on them. Like you chose that fancy equipment. Like that's not on them. I was gonna say actually Floris too, I think are one of the few vendors that are actually like doing a good job at this because so many people wanna gatekeep pricing and gatekeep information and act like their form of planning is a trade secret.

Well, it's kind of not and your clients want transparency. So one of the biggest trends that I know Andrea and I are both seeing on certain reddits is they almost are not turned off by overly perfect social media, but they question it more than ever before. Like there is a thread I think that we have in our Andrea and I's little Google doc that we have when we talk about this that is literally like a big budget couple being like

Kevin Dennis (: 11:25

Hmm.

Adrienna McDermott (: 11:37

I just want to know the logistics. I just want to know that they can handle this style of wedding and all their pictures are are just flat words and flat lays and hot looking couples. And it's like, we're not actually peeling back some of the layers that they actually want to see, especially at a higher price point. Like they're spending a ton of money. I think we assume that they don't care about the process when what Andrea and I see online is the opposite. Like there is a pin post that is

Kevin Dennis (: 12:02

Hmm.

Adrienna McDermott (: 12:05

a huge pin post on Big Budget Brides that is literally an analytical view of how someone planned a wedding and the comments are like, yes, yes, this is what I want. Like they are craving us to explain what is happening. And so if all we do is post pretty pictures and not talk about transparency or the process or how it works or what makes our business special, then all we're doing is just having this loud noise that doesn't actually teach them anything. And so if you're doing that, you can't complain when they come to you asking how much something costs.

or frustrated because you haven't replied fast enough. They're telling us online how they want to be treated as a consumer. And I think one of the biggest mistakes wedding vendors make is that we have this like, well, in our industry, it doesn't matter. We write the rules. When in any other industry, the consumer is first, I don't understand why we act like we're not in a consumer first industry. Of course we are. I think we are in a more consumer first industry.

Kevin Dennis (: 12:59

Yeah.

Adrienna McDermott (: 13:02

than anybody else, but yet we're the first ones to cast a stone and be like, how dare they ask that ridiculous question? excuse me? Customer service?

Kevin Dennis (: 13:12

Yeah, just,

well, yeah, that goes a long way. I think that, well, customer service, we are the worst when it comes to the wedding industry gives folks the worst customer service period. And I have a whole theory on that because I think there's a lot of artists, not business owners that are in the wedding industry. yeah, so that's a whole nother probably podcast that we could get into a whole nother day. But the biggest thing, I mean, I feel like I've been to so many conferences and they beat us over the head with

transparency and pricing, right? And so that I think, so we finally did it on our website. put it ⁓ several years ago, but we did arrange and what we did is we said, here's our range, but most clients spend this, you know, just, and what we found for us, it got rid of these people coming in that the clients that we did not want, cause you know, well, when you get a few of them, cause people don't read, but for the most part,

it eliminated some of these inquiries for the range that we are not in anymore. And so I guess we gave them a little bit more transparency. I guess to my point, how can we as a wedding industry get a little bit more transparent to help these couples?

Andrea (: 14:28

I do think pricing transparency is right up there. And I think it's at all levels of the market too. I think there's this myth that, so I grew up, I got married, pains me to say it, but 15 years ago. And I feel like that was the era, a little bit longer ago. Okay. So I feel like in that era, the custom pricing will customize everything for you. This kind of price upon request thing was very common and we dealt with it. I'm not gonna say we loved it back then, but we dealt.

Kevin Dennis (: 14:39

OK, I was 17, so we were right around the same time.

Andrea (: 14:57

it. Nowadays, people don't have that kind of patience and that's true even at the upper end of the market. I know Adriana and I have both seen people with ⁓ a $25,000 photography budget by no means small and they're still inquiring about celebrity photographers because they want to know if KT Mary is in their budget and they don't want to reach out to her if she isn't, which she isn't by the way, she puts a starting at price on her website. I know I've checked ⁓ and so people

Kevin Dennis (: 15:00

Mm-hmm.

Adrienna McDermott (: 15:24

Yeah.

Andrea (: 15:26

People are reaching out and if you don't share your own pricing, you lose control of the narrative. That's something I'm always saying. They'll ask a friend and their friend might tell them what you quoted them in 2022 or they'll go online and they'll find a price like someone will share it in a Facebook group, but they're planning a 300 person wedding and the price they're given is for 150 person wedding, et cetera, et cetera. So when you share your own pricing,

you are taking back some of that narrative and you are controlling the accuracy of the information they get.

Adrienna McDermott (: 15:59

And I would say another thing that we really try to encourage is when it comes to social media, like Instagram is to show behind the scenes in things like stories and reels and really utilize you and your team and your voices as this marketing point. Like the best way to market is with a personality. Like couples care about you as a human.

Kevin Dennis (: 16:18

Mmm.

Adrienna McDermott (: 16:27

And I know that sometimes gives our artists out there X because they're like, I'm an artist and I have to be like, you're a brand first before you're an artist. Your artistry is only 10 % of what you do. And I know that's not fun, but that's just the reality of having a business is our artistry is not a hundred percent what they're Truly, they're not buying our artistry. They are buying at the end of the day, a personality, a process and a transformation. So I'm always like,

If you want to connect better, look at what your competition is doing that are younger and have exploded overnight. So whenever we do competitor research, they'll always send me someone young who's in like in their 20s, fresh out of college, and this person blew up overnight. And they're like, how is it possible? And I'm like, they have shown their face every day for a year. You have never shown your face or a testimonial. They are out there as a brand.

That is why they are killing it. It's because you are not showing up. So I don't mean you need to come in sweaty after a yoga class unless that's your brand, then yeah, do it. But like, why don't you ever talk about the things that can connect your audience? Like look at what the younger people are doing and why they're blowing up and it's because they are on video, they're behind the scenes, they are in the DMs. Guys, stop having in your profile, don't DM me. You are, I know Andrea's face right now is like,

Andrea (: 17:54

Yeah.

Adrienna McDermott (: 17:54

For the love

of all that we love in this industry, the minute you close down your DMs, you have lost money and none of us can save you. The best words can't save you, SEO can't save you, none of us can save you. Your DMs have to.

Andrea (: 18:06

You don't have to like it, but you have to do it. Like it's that is one of my

affirmations, like one of my weird affirmations for myself when it comes to my own marketing. I don't have to like some of the things that I have to do anyways, because I can go and complain to my husband or my friends. Well, my friends don't really care. But like I can go complain to people about them. My friends all have like salary jobs. They're like, I don't know what goes on with you. ⁓ Yeah, I complain to you like.

Adrienna McDermott (: 18:28

except me, you can complain to me.

Andrea (: 18:31

I, but genuinely I don't have to like it, but I myself, I just changed my own inquiry process so that you do not have to get on a call with me. If you want to work with me, you can send me voice memos. You can just fill out a form and it's because you have to reach people the way they want to be reached. And I do see people trying to include texting and DMs more. I would say the only people who can say no DMs are if you're signed with an agency who does your bookings for you, which is like a vanishingly small percentage of people and good for them.

Then you've been like, that's exactly what you hired someone for. So, and I want to say there's a piece of content, a reel that I think blew up recently that was a great example of what you're talking about, Adriana. It was Megan from Magnolia Collective who posted it. And it's like, I don't know if I can describe it, but it is just like one of her team members inching. I think it's like a piece of signage, but like a really heavy piece of signage, like literally hands and knees inching it across the floor.

And just a one line caption about like, is basically how far we go to make your wedding look perfect or something like that. It's probably five minutes worth of effort to film that moment and write that caption and post it. And it got so many likes. One of my comments on that reel has like a hundred likes and that's just my comment on the reel. ⁓ Yeah, it's crazy. ⁓ And my comment was literally like when the people say they want behind the scenes content, this is what they mean. And people keep liking it because they genuinely agree with it.

Kevin Dennis (: 19:44

Holy cow.

Andrea (: 19:55

And the only thing that's really valuable there is the knowledge that, my God, this is a hilarious moment and people will love it. And sure enough, like that little throwaway content probably did more than a perfectly curated set of 25 image. Well, you can't do 25, but 10 images from a wedding.

Adrienna McDermott (: 20:13

100%. I think we put so much, I mean, literally I was at speaking at an event last week and a photographer comes up to me and is like, but I need my feed to look perfect. And I was like, I totally understand as a photographer, that's what you want. But also you can put a cute cover on it, but also like, do you want engagement and people to book you or do you want a pretty Instagram feed? Like you can have both, but your pretty Instagram feed isn't making you money, is it?

Andrea (: 20:41

It's not a museum. It's like there for purpose.

Adrienna McDermott (: 20:42

It's not, no.

It's a marketing platform. Marketing, like that's what we do.

Andrea (: 20:49

My whole attitude towards Instagram is

I don't have to like it, but I have to do it. like you don't. And the other thing I think Adriana and I would both say about anything we say here is that marketing is an experiment. Try it. Check the data. If it doesn't work for your people, then don't do it anymore. But like try something new for a while. Check the data. That's what I would say about sharing your pricing somewhere. Don't feel like you have to do anything forever. Nothing is forever. If you share your pricing and your inquiries are cut in

like 50%. One, DM me, because I'd really like to help you figure that one out, like what's going on there. But two, you can take your pricing back off. ⁓ But it's all an experiment that you can check with data.

Kevin Dennis (: 21:32

Yeah, I have so many questions that you guys asked. about, I want to say almost 17, 18 months ago, I hired a brand manager who's a 20 something because I am not a 20 something. And ⁓ at one point, she was having me do things and I'm like, what the hell? But then meanwhile, it has turned into this whole thing and everyone's waiting to see what crazy thing she makes me do or what.

kind of fit, you know, and they all have their favorites. Everyone tells me like, ⁓ my God, that one was my favorite and this was my favorite. But so I think, like to my point to this is you gotta, that was the greatest thing I've ever done. So you gotta meet them where they are and putting yourself out there. Cause we were working with a VA and it was just pretty photo, pretty photo, pretty photo, but there was no personality behind what we're doing. And we've seen a dramatic like uptick in our social media. We've seen a dramatic just even just

locally with the local vendors. ⁓ I'm very involved with like NACE and WIPA, so there's people that I connect with outside of my area that they are all looking for it. So I think just you got to start showing the behind the scenes stuff because that's the stuff that everyone gets excited about.

Adrienna McDermott (: 22:51

Yeah, and oftentimes it's the stuff that you kind of have to film and do yourself or have a team member do. And I think that's another hard part is that is something, but that's where you can hire someone to do that for you like you did where you can hire someone younger. I mean, we know in every city there's dozens of content creators. Why don't you have them come and film some stuff for you at your studio? know, like there's options out there. There's really not any excuse to not do it.

Kevin Dennis (: 22:55

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Well, especially now, mean, most everyone in the wedding industry has an iPhone, you know? And so with your iPhone, there's so much that you could do content-wise that actually looks pretty decent, you know, and goes out there. there's zero excuse to start doing this.

Andrea (: 23:36

You can get, I would say, if you gave yourself $100, and that's a generous budget, you can get like a little lavalier mic, you can get a nice tripod, you can get, I'm holding it up, whatever the sticky thing is that I use to stick my phone to doors and windows. And you can buy that, $100 is probably overly generous. You can probably get all that stuff for 30 or 40 bucks if you go to the website that shall not be named. And that alone,

Kevin Dennis (: 23:48

⁓ yeah.

Yeah.

Andrea (: 24:02

I'm traveling next week, I'm going to wedding and be so is Adriana and we'll be like filming ourselves doing all kinds of stuff, know, a time lapse in your hotel room or maybe we'll do something together and just like that little behind the scenes stuff. Yeah, it's just you have to develop a little bit of an intuition for what the right moments are and then you just kind of have to jump in and you might flop the first few times and that's also okay. It is okay to flop when you're doing this. Like you're not gonna get any better until you do it a bunch of times.

Kevin Dennis (: 24:30

I love it. All right. One more thing because we're going backwards on all the stuff that you guys, I had so many questions. So we recently had a local wedding group that I run out here. We had Tom from the not come and speak. And one thing he said, which I has stuck with me for a long, ever since ⁓ he spoke was that if you, if you are still running your business the way you were last year or even now, you're going to be extinct in two to four years. And I, and it just, and so

to deep dive into that, it's like you gotta meet the clients where they are. And if you're stuck in your ways, like closing your DMs or just insisting that you have to get on the phone or insisting that this is how I do business with you, you're gonna be gone, I think.

Adrienna McDermott (: 25:14

I mean, it's true, but it's even a decade ago consumers have changed. Like, people complained about millennials when they started getting married that we were the worst thing.

Kevin Dennis (: 25:21

God, that's all we talked

about at Wedding MBA was these Millennials. ⁓

Adrienna McDermott (: 25:25

Yeah, these darn tootin' millennials. And then

now us millennials are the ones running the industry, and so now we're complaining about Gen Z. But I mean, I think it's true, and I think it's also just really understanding. I think my biggest thing is that as a wedding vendor, if you don't understand your audience and how they buy and how they want to be sold to and what they actually are looking for, you can't run a...

Andrea (: 25:31

and complaining about Gen Z, yeah.

Adrienna McDermott (: 25:54

business, but that's also like any businesses like this, right? It's not unique to the wedding industry. But how many times I talk to ⁓ an inquiry or prospective client and they're just like not even sure, like, I don't know where to find that information. And I'm like, it's everywhere. Like go on Reddit and creep, go on Facebook groups, like ask your fellow vendor friends, ask your couples, look at your testimonials. Guys, your testimonials are your audience telling you what they like about you.

Andrea (: 26:10

one Reddit.

Adrienna McDermott (: 26:24

Read them, don't just like act like they don't exist. Like read them and pull out nuggets and be like, oh, this is what stands out. Like I think a lot of times, again, it's like we just forget that our audience is not shy. They're not like they're vocally telling us what they want from us. But I think we've just had blinders on for the last decade and acted like, like they've been doing this online for over a decade. Like this is one of the reasons I grew an agency. This is one of the reasons I was a successful wedding vendor.

Kevin Dennis (: 26:25

You

Adrienna McDermott (: 26:51

was because when I owned a bridal shop, you better know I looked at every single thing that was trending months before it trended and went to Fashion Week. Reddit, online, like, vlogs before TikTok became a thing. this is not new. I just feel like we kind of like acted like they're not there. Like, go on TikTok, spend 20 minutes scrolling. What is trending? Whatever you see on TikTok is gonna be in six months in your inbox for a wedding. You should know that. Like, that is your job is to know that.

Kevin Dennis (: 27:14

Mm-hmm.

Andrea (: 27:18

I would, on Reddit, over and over again, I come back to Reddit just because it is a place that people can talk without showing their name or their face. Like Facebook groups are great for a lot of things. TikTok, great for a lot of things. Instagram, actually not always ideal for ideal client research. Threads can be, but on Reddit, people will say whatever pops into their head with very little concern about being polite and as painful as that is.

It's incredibly valuable as a copywriter. is the first place I'm going to look for insight from like what we would call like a cold audience, people who might potentially buy what you're selling but aren't actually necessarily in your world yet. And they will they will tell you everything. And some of it definitely will not be fun to read. Like there are the people out there who are like the whole wedding industry is a scam. They're up charging for everything.

And I think one thing Adriana and I would both say is when you come across people like that on Reddit or on threads, do not feel like you have to argue with them and like change their mindset about that because I see a lot of people that they get into the mud and they start fighting and I get it, it's annoying, but ⁓ yeah, well yeah, I'm like there with my popcorn, know, but at the same time, like you can't, you're not gonna convince them.

Kevin Dennis (: 28:12

Yeah

I was going to say that's my favorite thing to watch. Watch like, yes. My popcorn, yeah.

Andrea (: 28:31

It goes back to the content they're already seeing and a lot of people can't be convinced or maybe they'll be convinced at the end when they have inquired with 20 florists and the only ones that do good work are the ones that are charging those prices and you're like, okay, yeah, I get it now. So yeah, I mean, we could go on and on all day about like what vendors should not be saying on social media.

Adrienna McDermott (: 28:50

Cause I will say one quick thing for Reddit though, because here's what's gonna happen in about 30 seconds is people are gonna go on Reddit and be like, I'm gonna start creeping and then they're gonna start commenting. Here's the thing, just read it. Just until you understand the platform, please don't, you'll just get us all banned. They already don't like vendors over there now because we've infiltrated in the last six months and there's, just stop it. Just read, use it as consumer research.

Kevin Dennis (: 28:59

Yeah, don't comment.

Mmm.

Adrienna McDermott (: 29:17

Make sure

you know if you're being talked about what they're saying. Like Andrea said, make sure you're understanding what your audience wants. Don't engage, please, because it's just making us all look bad. Vendors have a bad rep online because, mean, that's, you know, do we start talking about threads now? Is that where we bring up the...

Andrea (: 29:36

We will, but I feel

like one thing I do want to say about Reddit that we specifically wanted to note is that definitely don't promote yourself on Reddit. But there are also places where promoting people you have worked with in the industry is also not ideal. There's a subreddit called Big Budget Brides. Please do not take that away from me. That is my number one source of learning what people think. And there, they have actually made a rule where you are also not allowed as a vendor to come on and say, I've worked

Kevin Dennis (: 29:44

Hmm.

Andrea (: 30:03

with Jane Doe Photography in New York City, she's great because the reality is your perspective may be different and the people in that community have decided as a collective, they wanna hear from other people planning their weddings, not vendors. Not every part of Reddit is like that, but I do think it's really important to ⁓ be aware of the part of Reddit you're on.

And then if you are, if you do contribute valuable information where possible, you can earn yourself some goodwill. Like I know the photographer, Evan Rich is super active on Reddit and he probably can recommend vendors because he has for every post he makes that is like in any way promotional of himself or anyone, he probably puts in a hundred comments that are pure information. And so now he also gets tagged by users on Reddit who are like, Evan will know about that. So he is.

Kevin Dennis (: 30:51

⁓ wow.

Andrea (: 30:54

Evan is killing it on Reddit. don't know if he listens to this podcast, but he is like, but it is clear he has put in the effort to be a valuable, it's a total value first approach. And then he's getting a benefit out of it after putting in the effort to be valuable.

Kevin Dennis (: 31:10

So you gotta be more like an Evan and not be like someone going on there and just getting in a fight with people, I guess, is the best advice we can get. How often are you guys on Reddit?

Adrienna McDermott (: 31:20

Yeah.

Andrea (: 31:24

every day.

Adrienna McDermott (: 31:25

Minimal

Kevin Dennis (: 31:25

Yeah.

Adrienna McDermott (: 31:26

once a day, probably two to three times a day.

Andrea (: 31:28

It's more like

how often do we send screenshots to each other of things we find on Reddit? That's daily too, yeah. And not everything is like, sometimes it's just like, this is a really beautiful dress. Like someone, you know, ordered a hand painted wedding dress and I'm sucker for that sort of thing. So I'm like sending it to her. Cause again, like, what am I gonna do? Show it to like someone in my real life. They're gonna be like, cool, okay.

Kevin Dennis (: 31:31

my gosh.

Adrienna McDermott (: 31:32

⁓ that's daily. Every day.

it. Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 31:50

They have real salary jobs,

Andrea (: 31:51

I'm definitely that

Adrienna McDermott (: 31:53

What does that mean?

Andrea (: 31:54

like I also I will say that when I talk about like as a creative running a business you should do this that and the other thing and I think Adriana will agree this is both of us are very much coming at it from the perspective of being creatives who have had to learn to run a business and not I was not a business person it is all hard learning on my

Adrienna McDermott (: 32:11

100%, it's doing a lot of things I don't wanna do.

Kevin Dennis (: 32:14

Yeah, well, and that's the part. I think the people that are successful are doing the things that they don't want to do, but the people that aren't are the ones who are artists and we're too pretty for that. we don't. we take forever. Going back to customer service, when you take four, five, six days to respond to a client, you're going to lose them. I mean, you'll lose them immediately. Because you've got the Evans of the world out there killing it and responding and doing it the right way.

Adrienna McDermott (: 32:36

Yeah.

100%. If you take more than 24 hours to even do an inquiry, they're gone in the void.

Kevin Dennis (: 32:46

Yeah.

Andrea (: 32:46

Yep.

Kevin Dennis (: 32:47

Well, OK. And real quick, because I know you guys are speaking at Wedding MBA, and I've been listening to the little podcasts that Clint does with them. And there's a girl that's speaking. I forget her name, and I really bad. I should have remembered her name. But she got rid of her inquiry form on her website. so now, it ⁓ was really beta when she was on there. She said she'll have more data when we get to

there next week to there, she only has a text number and she's seen her inquiries go through the roof because they want to that that you're meeting them where they want to be.

Andrea (: 33:20

Mmm.

Adrienna McDermott (: 33:28

Like at 100 % that because it's also you're not asking them 47 questions. Y'all, you shouldn't have more than six questions on a contact form ever. And if you have more than that, again, you've lost it. But yeah, like that is a zero barrier entry. They can give you the info and then you can talk at their speed too, right? Instead of just shoving emails down their throat and being like, hello, hello. I think it's pretty smart.

Kevin Dennis (: 33:31

Mm-hmm.

Well,

I thought it was Jeanne. I'm excited to go to her class, to be honest with you. I'm really excited. I want to know what has happened in the last couple of months of her research. mean, to be honest with you, that's what I'm most excited about. I mean, even for us as a company, we just recently changed over our whole phone system so we can all text from our work phones now. it's just because the clients are wanting to be there. They want the DMs. They want to text.

So that's our way of, I guess, evolving. don't know. Yeah. So all right. Adriana, from a strategy ⁓ perspective, what platforms or approaches are most effective right now for vendors trying to build credibility?

Adrienna McDermott (: 34:22

Yeah, you have to and it's great.

Andrea (: 34:22

Absolutely.

Adrienna McDermott (: 34:35

Ooh, credibility, that's a good one. So I mean, Instagram will always be the top platform for us. I mean, there's not really, I don't think that's honestly going away anytime soon. I think TikTok is great for engagement and following. I don't know if it's as good for credibility because that's not really the point of the platform. I would say with credibility, what works really well is any type of PR or press. I think we often overlook becoming experts in our field and

talking about it, so whether you're being quoted in articles or you have events and weddings published, even a couple a year, I think produces credibility, not just for yourself, but for things like chat GPT, which is looking at your backlinks. And if you don't have any, well, it's gonna be hard to come up on chat GPT these days. ⁓ And we've actually found Pinterest has been a pretty solid platform for that too, because we know couples are spending a lot of time on it.

hit or miss because there's the rise of AIs on every platform. So on Pinterest, it's becoming kind of a problem. But we're still seeing it in terms of credibility because it's showing you as an expert in your space because a lot of your competitors don't use it. So instead of being on Instagram where you're one of 50,000 Colorado wedding photographers, on Pinterest, I think there's like nine using it. So it allows a little bit for your voice to be slightly louder.

Kevin Dennis (: 36:03

I've been hearing that about Pinterest. We got all excited about it when it first came out and then we all ignored it, but now you need to get back out there and get back on it and be active on it again.

Adrienna McDermott (: 36:15

Yeah, it's a good platform especially if you're blogging. If you have a blog strategy, you might as well add it. If you don't have a blog strategy, don't worry about it. It's not really gonna work. That's totally fine. It's not your platform. But if you have a blog strategy, go for it.

Kevin Dennis (: 36:27

All right, so Andrea, from the copyright side, what kind of messaging resonates with most couples in a trust recession, especially like on social platforms?

Andrea (: 36:37

you have to be their ally. In a battle that they maybe didn't even know they were fighting until you like pointed it out to them and then they're like, my God, that's me. And I feel like it's you're giving them permission to not do something they don't feel like doing or taking their side on something. So I work with a DJ in the UK and he'll come straight out and say like, I won't play the chicken dance at your wedding unless you ask me to.

Kevin Dennis (: 36:53

Mmm.

Andrea (: 37:04

And that's not a spicy take for him because 50 or not 50, 95 % of the people who are going to book Mike don't want the chicken dance anyway. So he's not offending people, but he is kind of cutting through by saying, okay, here I am the DJ who's not going to just like listen to what you say and then go and play the chicken dance anyways. He leads with that message and he's specific about it. And there's so many traditions and expenses and that sort of thing that people might feel pressured to do that I feel like one really easy way to...

connect with them is to say, I'm on your side. You don't want to do a garter toss, we don't do a garter toss. You don't want to do a first look, we don't do a first look. There's ways to build in that little permission slip. So I think that really resonates. And then I would say that the other thing that people need to do in terms of their messaging is your personality matters, especially for vendors who spend a lot of time with people on their wedding day or in the lead up. So photo, video, planner.

Kevin Dennis (: 37:58

Mm.

Andrea (: 37:59

Hair and makeup, you guys are like in the room setting the tone on the day of, that matters so much. And you're gonna see all kinds of stuff. You're gonna see complicated family dynamics. You're gonna see emotional highs and emotional lows. They really wanna be able to trust you at a personality level. And I feel like back again in the age of the dinosaurs when I got married, sometimes it was like someone would hire a vendor that like just didn't vibe with the room. And you're just gonna put up with it because you didn't really have a great way to get a sense of.

who the vendor was before you booked them. Maybe you got a call or a meeting. Nowadays, with all these social channels, with video, with other platforms, there's no excuse not to show some of your personality and just let people know whether you're a fit.

Kevin Dennis (: 38:43

I love it. And it's true. Well, Andrea and I got married almost around the same time, you there back in the day, there would be I had a wedding and they're distinctly remember this bride looking at me going, I need you to protect me. And I looked at her like, what is like I was like, what's because my wedding photographer is driving me nuts and I can't just can you keep him away from me? But I but that is not a thing anymore because they are personalities are out there.

And I, but I just distinctly remember this bright cause she grabbed me on the shoulder and kind of like really dug her fingers in there. I was like, ⁓ okay. And it was like, so the whole time I was like trying to like keep this guy away from her. anyway, so.

Andrea (: 39:27

Yep, I was definitely

thinking of a photographer in a wedding where I was surprised me when I said that. like, and I also feel like even before that, like 10 years earlier than that, or whatever you're calling people in the phone book, a lot of times your parents were more involved, so they might have done the booking and like, you just got what you got. Nowadays, that is not the expectation that couples have.

Kevin Dennis (: 39:31

Yeah.

Adrienna McDermott (: 39:45

And I think it's also important to remember that your brand personality isn't just for them to like you, but for you to like them. For you to bring in, if you're constantly getting leads that are awful fits, like how many times are we in a Facebook group, Andrea, or the thread, and they're like, my clients are awful. And it's like, is your, like are you, yeah, what are you giving out there? But also like your brand personality should also be a.

Kevin Dennis (: 40:05

You're awful.

Adrienna McDermott (: 40:12

aligning the right type of client. Like it should be so that you are bringing in the right type of client who trust you and want to work with you and are green flags. Like if you're bringing in a lot of red flags, there's a communication error. Like, and Andrea can attest to that. whether it's in your copy or your messaging or your marketing or imagery, if all you're getting are red flags, there's something wrong with your marketing and your communication. Like that shouldn't be happening. It's a messaging thing, yeah.

Andrea (: 40:33

Yep, it's a messaging thing. It's fixable,

but it's a messaging thing. And I have, it's also not the same for everyone, right? But I feel like the one people come to me the most often is like photographers where they're like, please no more weddings with 12 bridesmaids ever again. And I'm like, we can do that, but you were gonna have to fix your messaging. Or Adriana, I think of a client we worked with who was actually kind of the opposite. ⁓

Kevin Dennis (: 40:49

Mm-hmm.

Andrea (: 40:55

who's a stationer and a lot of people are like, please don't give me parents. And she's like, no, I'll take all the parents you can throw at me. will like, this is my zone. I am really good at balancing different decision makers and that sort of thing. And so that's in her copy. And that's like, it's reflected because she will take those people. ⁓ But yeah, if everyone that you get is not a fit for the kind of weddings you want to do, there is like a disconnect between the business you want to have and the messaging you're putting out there in the.

Kevin Dennis (: 41:24

Yeah, well, I distinctly think of a vendor in my market that complains about clients, but also in the social media, I'm like, this is why you're complaining because that's what you're putting, know, it's the bait you're throwing out there is coming back for you.

Adrienna McDermott (: 41:43

100 % stop complaining. Just stop. Like don't, like literally threads, all of my friends that are on threads that are not in the wedding industry, every single one has come up to me at one point in the last year and been like, so like is threads just where wedding vendors go to complain? Like is that just like why it was made? It is infiltrating their feed. It is infiltrating everybody's feed. It is the universal consensus is threads has become.

Kevin Dennis (: 41:44

Yeah. I love it. Stop.

Uh-oh.

Adrienna McDermott (: 42:12

I don't want to swear, but we complain. We bitch and moan. All we do is we bitch and moan about how hard our life is. And our couples see it and then they're like, ⁓ excuse me. And then they post your pictures on Reddit and then they're like, this person's awful. So just be really careful on what you say. It's the internet. I think we forget that it's searchable. And complain to your friends. Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 42:14

You could swear.

Andrea (: 42:34

It's under your real name. And

Kevin Dennis (: 42:36

bullet

Andrea (: 42:37

also don't, I would say don't bash other vendors' too. And that was one that we had this example come up. This was a really specific example when we first booked this episode. Taylor Swift got engaged. If that's news to anyone out there, I don't think it is. But Taylor Swift got engaged. And she had her photos done. And I don't think we know who the photographer is, which probably makes sense for that person because they didn't want 100,000 inquiries the next day. But.

Kevin Dennis (: 42:37

in the.

Adrienna McDermott (: 42:43

Yes.

Kevin Dennis (: 42:49

What? Did she? Really?

Adrienna McDermott (: 42:53

Is helping?

Andrea (: 43:03

people were complaining about the style of the photography and I would have done a better job and the photos are like this and they're like that and they look kind of dated. First of all, Taylor's vibe is very millennial. It's not, she's not gonna be up to the moment Gen Z. That is what she wanted. I have no doubt about it. But secondly, like some of your ideal customers might like that. And if that's not a service you wanna provide, totally fine. But you don't have to be out here bashing something that some of your ideal clients might like. And I know Adriana, you had another example about.

photography tones and I want to be really clear. I'm not just picking on photographers. This is I see this across all vendor categories. We just had two examples.

Kevin Dennis (: 43:36

Okay.

Adrienna McDermott (: 43:37

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 43:39

I always

have to apologize when I speak because all my bad stories are about photographers. always like, I'm sorry photographer. like literally I'll be at an association. like, who's the photographers in the room? I'm sorry. All my bad stories are mainly about photographers.

Andrea (: 43:56

love photographers, they're most of my clients and most of them are fine with this but like I think Adriana you also had one about someone complaining about photo tones, right? That they're like you don't want your wedding photos to look like this.

Kevin Dennis (: 43:58

Yes.

Adrienna McDermott (: 44:04

Yeah, this

was on Reddit like someone who was their comment. I'll just read it is this was on like what was pretty much why vendors are the worst vendors who bash others were having a different or aesthetic or style is them a local photographer posted a reel about how you want light and airy photos because dark moody warm or dirty and muddy. The audio she used was Jimmy Fallon's ⁓ sound.

And she's like, is couple getting married. It's valid to have preferences of different styles, that's why they exist. But to publicly post something like that makes me cringe at your business and you as a person. And I mean, any vendor could do it, right? If you're a planner and you hate huge weddings and they're the worst and you want to vomit every time you see them, maybe don't say that because your client's sister might be having a really big wedding. Just don't take them as a client. Just because I so we're not always just yelling at photographers.

all vendors do it. But yeah, it's that idea of like, be nice to other artists because their couples notice too.

Kevin Dennis (: 45:09

Well, and there's vendors that I know that are, that's beneath me. Well, you never know. You know, and that drives me nuts because you could work with this couple and maybe it's not quite the budget that you normally want to work with, but that one, and you give this person a really good positive experience, it could lead you to someone in the wedding party or they know someone at work or you you just provided them with a great experience and therefore they're going to tell everyone. You provide them with a horrible experience.

They're gonna tell 10 times more people than they would, you know, and that's the thing I think people forget.

Adrienna McDermott (: 45:44

Yeah,

people will complain louder than they praise. Like that's just how it is. And I think we also have to remember like what an honor it is to be in this industry. What an honor it is to be chosen. So if your couple isn't your ideal couple, like it is, they are still humans. This is an incredible opportunity you have to do something amazing for someone they're gonna remember the rest of their life. Like keep that in mind.

Kevin Dennis (: 45:47

Mm-hmm.

Andrea (: 45:47

huh.

And it's new and exciting, sorry, Kevin, ⁓ I was gonna say it's new and exciting for them. I have, I think the status 90 % of couples getting married have never been married before, roughly. The ones that you're gonna deal with in your wedding business. I wanna say that's from Wedding Pros Report this year. And it's all new to them. And it's exciting to them. It doesn't matter if it's the thousandth wedding dress you've sold or the hundred thousandth time you've heard someone play Earth, Wind & Fire September in September.

Kevin Dennis (: 46:09

Well, yeah, and go, go, go, go, go, go.

No.

Andrea (: 46:37

that's what I hear all the time, it is their wedding and they want to hear that because that is the day they are getting married and it makes them super happy and like you are allowed to be a little cringe sometimes too. Like you are allowed to want cheesy traditional things and it is their only wedding most likely and even if it's not their only wedding it's still really special to them. They wouldn't be throwing wedding if they didn't care about marking the occasion with other people so do have a little like I

keep it in the group chat, okay? It is totally fine to get in the group chat with your friends and say, if I hear September one more time, I'm just like, you I'm not gonna be able to take it anymore. It is fine to have a group chat with that, but just remember that publicly available social media is not the same as your WhatsApp group or whatever.

Kevin Dennis (: 47:22

No, maybe that's a good point is have an outlet to ⁓ people that you can trust, that you can let it out. Because I think there's too many people that are getting very negative on the internet, on their business page, even a little bit getting political, which is a whole other topic for another day.

And it just, you're immediately turning off, like when people see that, you turn people off right away. Whether you like, you could be, don't like that political side of the world, or you don't like this, whatever, it just turns people off. the more neutral you could be, the more you can be about stuff, I think the better it is for your business down the road.

Andrea (: 48:09

Yeah, I think there's a time and a place for spicy takes. And I think some people lean way too much into, particularly like with the industry related stuff. Like I will understand and respect people standing on some political beliefs. And I think when you put that out there, you have to know that you are taking a risk by doing that. But like, don't, I don't know that the Hill I'd Want to Die On is like a song that I happen to have heard 500 times at a wedding. Like just, you know.

Kevin Dennis (: 48:25

big time.

Andrea (: 48:37

You're getting paid. At the end of the day, and I think this is something we all have to remind ourselves about our work. Sometimes I sit down to write a website for a wedding photographer and it is hard for me to come up with new words about photography because I've lit like verbs, shoot, capture, record, preserve. And I'm like, my God, I need 10 times more. The words, that is the work. And it's the same for wedding vendors. The work is finding freshness and joy and being capable of doing something even if you've done it a hundred times before.

save for very few people at the upper echelon of the industry, you're not rewriting the script every time you do this and that is the job. It's the job for most of us. mean, maybe Marcy Blum gets to have a total creative freedom when she's doing weddings with multi-million dollar budgets, but most of us have to go back and do the work and be creative even though we're working from the same template again.

Kevin Dennis (: 49:13

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I agree. the average wedding vendor, they're going to have to do that work. yeah.

Andrea (: 49:37

that I'm sure you could

tell us when you play a set at a wedding, there's probably, no matter how unique people think their music taste is, there's probably significant overlap in what gets played at most weddings because certain songs get people out and moving on the dance floor and like, hey, y'all is always gonna have people, you know, moving no matter what.

Kevin Dennis (: 49:54

I

call them tools in my toolbox. And whether I like them or not, there's tools that I need to use to do my job. And there's songs that are like fingernails on the chalkboard for me, but they do make people love them. And so therefore, I play them. Because they're a tool in my toolbox is the way I always look. And that's, ⁓

Andrea (: 50:17

That's

a really useful way to think of it. Usually we don't have to actually hear out loud the tools in our toolbox, but yes, like you, yeah. But I think also you probably go on autopilot after a while, right? Like you're just like, I'm not even, yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 50:21

Yeah.

Adrienna McDermott (: 50:22

this.

Kevin Dennis (: 50:26

Yeah, I just go numb.

We're just here to do it. All right. We're getting ready to wrap up. We're getting to the end. But did we hit on all the little stories that we had to cover on the Google Sheet that you guys had?

Andrea (: 50:41

Um, let me see. I feel like...

Kevin Dennis (: 50:42

⁓ I'm

enjoying the spicy takes. Or do we have any more spicy takes?

Andrea (: 50:47

I

do, I feel like we have one more which is ⁓ that most of the complaints we see online are about a lack of communication. Ultimately that is what so many complaints come down to. When they're valid or even when someone's being a little like hard on you, it's about a lack of communication. I can't tell you how many posts I've seen in groups, Facebook groups where vendors like, my client's really mad at me and threatening to sue because they don't have.

Kevin Dennis (: 50:49

Ooh, yes.

Andrea (: 51:12

the photos and I was, you I had a medical event, but then as like the story trickles out, it's like, well, the client isn't necessarily frustrated that you had to go to the hospital. They're frustrated that it took them three weeks to find out that you were in the hospital and then you keep telling them you'll have the thing delivered and you'll have the thing delivered. And it's an old story, right? Nobody needs me to go through that one. And again, not to pick on photographers. It happens all the time with a lot of vendors, but I feel like communication is a huge thing here. Or the people who find out their wedding venue is

being sold and the next owner isn't going to honor the contract and they're like, okay, but I was in there two weeks ago to sign my contract. You cannot convince me that you went from not planning to sell to signed on the dotted line within two weeks for your venue. So I think communication is really where a lot of complaints originate.

Adrienna McDermott (: 52:00

Like if you look at any, I would say 90 % of the online complaints that couples have, it's because their vendor didn't communicate. Like they're frustrated with their planner because their planner never communicated the boundaries. Like there were no boundaries set and then the planner got mad when there were no boundaries set. Like it's up to you to set boundaries, communicate clearly, have a process in place. That's not up to your couple. Of course they're gonna cross boundaries if you set zero.

Like half the time it's like, yeah, if the photographer or the planner would have just done this or the forest would have just explained the pricing hike, this thread would have never happened on Reddit. yeah, like a really truly is almost always communication. Like this, the vendor wasn't communicated enough and assumed the couple knew something when they obviously have no idea.

Kevin Dennis (: 52:47

But I feel like that could be said for every walk of our lives. If you don't communicate, there's going to be problems. it's just like, yeah.

Andrea (: 52:54

Yep, that's what it all comes down to in the end. I do

think there's some at the higher end of the market, especially I do think people have really high expectations for communication because they themselves have jobs that demand that they are excellent communicators. And so that's where I see a lot of frustration in more of like the luxury tier of the market when people are they're making good money themselves, but they know that they have to respond to their emails within 24 hours and they are just

Kevin Dennis (: 53:12

Hmm.

Andrea (: 53:21

baffled by why their vendors can't. And I also think, again, like Adriana said, you set expectations. Like, even though your couples logically know that you're probably working a wedding from Friday evening and then, you know, you're crashed out on Sunday morning and in between you're doing stuff the whole time, they might logically know that, but like, it's not on the top of their mind when they fire off an inquiry. So just remind them, like, hey, I'm usually not responding to emails on Saturday. It's not because I don't love you. It's because I am working.

Dedicating that time as it should be to another client and then I will be back to you on Monday I have a client who's a planner who's phenomenal about that like you get an email from her You will know her studio hours She is the queen of boundaries and I have no doubt that as soon as she is back in office She does not sit around and like do other things while her email queue piles up. She's on it

Kevin Dennis (: 54:05

She doesn't gossip

about all the bad photographers over the weekend and all. I love that. And by the way, there are good photographers out there. Julian is one of them because he listens to our show regularly. So hi, Julian. All right. So all right. As we wrap up, if you could give vendors one action step to strengthen trust with their audience this week, what would it be?

Andrea (: 54:10

I mean maybe she does, but I bet you she doesn't after her emails are attended to if she does it at all.

Adrienna McDermott (: 54:13

hahahaha ⁓

Kevin Dennis (: 54:37

This is your mic drop moment. OK. ⁓

Adrienna McDermott (: 54:39

Mine's not gonna be that exciting.

I mean, I think it's the most important one, but it's gonna sound boring until it works. ⁓ Share a testimonial, y'all. Stop hoarding them on your Google page and acting like anyone can read them. Go to your website, get rid of your random testimonial tab that no one reads. Put your testimonials all over your website. Put them on your social media. If you don't know what to say on Instagram today,

Post a testimonial. I swear the longer you've been a vendor, the least likely you are to ever share a testimonial. And like, it doesn't compute with me because like, you have no excuse when you have a hundred great testimonials. So that's the best way to give trust is literally have someone else tell your couple why to trust you. Like use them.

Andrea (: 55:32

I would say show your face, and this is for my millennials and up, I know, like this is not coming from a person who has an easy time putting her face on video or whatever. Show your face on social media, show your face on your website. I mean that literally. Have a photograph of you in the about section on your homepage. Have a photograph of you on your about page. Have photographs of your team members if they're interacting with people, if they're going to be, like obviously if it's behind the scenes, if it's your VA who never talks to anyone, like you don't have to stress about that.

Kevin Dennis (: 55:35

Mmm.

Andrea (: 56:01

But I have a client who has 12 team members listed and you better believe there's a photo and a bio for every one of them because you're going to be interacting with them. Show your face in the current atmosphere we're in. People really want to see it and they're really suspicious of like facelessness. again, we don't have to like it, but we do have to do it. It's just part of life. And like Adriana said, there are people blowing up all the time. And if there's a common thread about people who just go,

regularly from zero to 10,000 on social media, they are not hiding from the camera, they are showing their face.

Kevin Dennis (: 56:39

I love it. And then, Andrew, the advice I can give you is just don't go back and look at the video. Just go do it. Because that's what I've learned to do ever since we brought her name is August, our brand manager, ever since August has been around. I just don't go back and look at it. And I let everyone tell me how wonderful or how silly I look or any of that stuff. And I just don't let it bother. It's something I do now, and I don't watch it.

Andrea (: 56:44

God, why would I ever do that?

Have you ever watched a video of yourself giving a speech, talk? I think I might die. Like I think I would, I couldn't do it. I'm sure Megan would be mad if she heard me saying this because I bet you she goes and does it and that's how she gets to be a better speaker.

Kevin Dennis (: 57:08

I can't. Yeah.

Adrienna McDermott (: 57:08

No. No.

Kevin Dennis (: 57:16

Well, because Megan, don't

know Megan like rehearses it 55 times before she even gives it and like anytime we're traveling together I have to run through my presentation three more times and I'm like girl She's the pros pro of all like if anyone needs to do it like it's me I need to run through it 55 more times But anyway, she she cracks me up, but she's good at that stuff. I can make fun of her, you know I'm not Yeah

Andrea (: 57:41

Yeah, I think you're entitled. think, and I think she'll give it right back.

Adrienna McDermott (: 57:42

You're allowed.

Kevin Dennis (: 57:46

She did. I had her on. It was my 50th episode the other day. And so we were on there talking about wedding MBA. it was about probably at least a third of it was us making fun of each other. So as it should be, that's what we do. All right, guys. Before we wrap up, can you tell the audience how they can get in contact with you? And also, we'll have all their information in the show notes as well. But who wants to go?

Adrienna McDermott (: 57:59

as it should be. Yeah.

Kevin Dennis (: 58:14

How about Andrew, you go first?

Andrea (: 58:16

Okay, you can find me on my website and Kevin will have the link for you. And I'm also trying to show my face on Instagram and find my millennial tendencies. I'm trying to be in my video era. And I'm also on threads a lot because as a writer, that's like the natural easy platform for me is like just type a sentence and send it out and we're good. So that's where you can mostly find me. And then just like Adriana, I am also often on the road speaking and I will be next at wedding MBA. So I should probably go practice my talk 55 times.

Kevin Dennis (: 58:23

Hahaha!

Adrienna McDermott (: 58:24

Hahaha

Kevin Dennis (: 58:44

Yeah,

55 times. Remember, 50.

Andrea (: 58:46

55 minimum, which

is at this point is going to have me pretty much literally practicing every waking hour until I leave.

Kevin Dennis (: 58:51

Ha ha ha ha ha

ha ha ha ha

Adrienna McDermott (: 58:54

So soon. Well, you can come find me over at Ava and the Bee on Instagram. I am in stories every day. So come hang out with me. That's the best way to find me.

Kevin Dennis (: 59:04

All right, perfect. All right, ladies, I can't thank you enough for being here together. It was fun having you both on at the same time. And hopefully we can do it again sometime down the road. And we will see you guys in like a week. All in Vegas. We all take over that world. And all the Uber drivers are like, what convention are you guys?

Andrea (: 59:13

Yes.

Adrienna McDermott (: 59:14

Thank you.

Andrea (: 59:16

Like a week, we will all be in the same place.

Adrienna McDermott (: 59:17

Yeah. Vegas!

VEGA!

Yeah ⁓

Kevin Dennis (: 59:29

All right. Well, folks, thank you for listening to another episode of Mind Your Wedding Business. We will see you again next time. Bye.