You Attract What You Show: Why Your Work Isn’t Landing The Clients You Want with Julian Ribinik

Kevin Dennis (: 00:00

Alright folks welcome to another episode of mind your wedding business we have Julian with us today and Julian is a second time guest those that know me very very well know I used to drink iced tea like it was water like literally I replaced water in my life with iced tea and on the last episode Julian got me to stop drinking iced tea so Julian I'm

Here to tell you I still every once in a while. I have a iced tea if we're out at lunch But not I do not drink it anymore like it's water. So thank you for making me a little bit healthier from our last episode so And everyone's still shocked everyone in my family everyone that knows me is like what you don't you know, like it was just like a crazy habit I got rid of so but today

Julian Ribinik (: 00:34

How could I?

My pleasure.

Kevin Dennis (: 00:46

We're here to talk about a lot of other things, but Julian, before we jump in, I'm going to have you reintroduce yourself to everyone for those that may be new and don't know who Julian is.

Julian Ribinik (: 00:55

Of course. So obviously my name is Julian. Last name is Ribinik. It's hard to pronounce and read, getting a lot of typos here and there, but I am a wedding photographer for the last 17 years. based in New York city and we work all over, including Europe. And I also happen to be a health coach.

and help wedding professionals with performing better, with not being tired, with not suffering from extra weight and just doing better job and better business for themselves.

Kevin Dennis (: 01:31

I love it. And I feel like in the wedding industry, we all, that's the one thing that all of us, know, vendors, creative partners forget is taking care of our health. And I, you know, I know that's the one thing I love to see from your, Instagram, you're out there taking care of yourself. So good for you. Yes, yes, we do. All right. So here we're going to talk about why some vendors can't, cannot break their ceiling and complain about lack of work.

Julian Ribinik (: 01:49

Have to.

Kevin Dennis (: 01:58

And that's a topic that I've been hearing a lot when I've been working weddings, like, you know, just different folks complaining, you know, about don't have enough weddings or don't all of a sudden I don't have weddings on Saturdays. I only have them on Fridays. There's all kinds of complaints going on out there in the wedding industry. So when you propose this topic, I was like, you know what? This is going to be a good one to dive in with Julian. So so I guess I think.

I thought about it a lot when we were going through it and I think a lot of it starts with someone's style or online presence. So how does that lead to the clients they attract?

Julian Ribinik (: 02:38

So I'll backtrack a little bit and give a little, I don't know, background for people. A lot of us are in different communities online and doing some networking. And I noticed that lately there's a lot of those posts in different groups.

Kevin Dennis (: 02:39

Okay.

Julian Ribinik (: 02:56

And it doesn't apply specifically to photographers or anything like that. There are groups for all vendors that people complain about, oh, I'm doing this and this and this, and I'm in the business for 20 years. And last year was horrible. This year is horrible. And, um, I'm doing everything and things don't work. And people call doomsday. People say the wedding industry is doomed.

And when you look at what those people do, they are not necessarily doing correct things, right? Things, or maybe they're doing something that was working 20 years ago, 10 years ago, or five years ago, when they started essentially. And now those things don't work, but we are.

Kevin Dennis (: 03:36

Mmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 03:40

very old fashioned as is and we are like, if my mom said this, you know, bone broth is good for health and it has to be. And we stay in that track and we do things that may be a good or maybe are harming us, but we strongly believe that doing what I was doing before is necessarily good.

Kevin Dennis (: 04:02

Mm.

Julian Ribinik (: 04:03

And nowadays in the age of visibility and the age of different generation, we should be really paying attention to what is out there, what other people do, but also what we do that is not the right behavior. All right. And everyone has an Instagram now. Everyone tries to get business and people put out their things that

Kevin Dennis (: 04:24

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 04:31

they think are good and it might be harming them. So I really want to say like one big thing that is probably cliche by now if you're listening to things and reading things but for most people it's not obvious that you literally attract the things that you put out. So if and we just discussed it with Kevin if you're putting out

Kevin Dennis (: 04:36

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 04:56

Sports if you're putting out cute puppies and if you're putting out your own kids on Instagram or things as I don't know rustic weddings and you complain about lack of Luxury clients and city weddings and look at what you putting out because people are paying attention to what you put out and they measure you but

Kevin Dennis (: 05:16

Mmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 05:19

what's on your Instagram page, what's on your website, and people are not going to scroll through your feed, through your grid for two years back to see what you actually do. People do not page down on your website too much if they don't like the first thing that they saw. You have like three seconds to capture their attention.

Kevin Dennis (: 05:22

Mm-hmm.

Good.

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 05:43

And if the last thing that you did is not corresponding with your ideal work, well, hell, this is what you're going to get. And if the person who went on your website likes cute puppies, they will connect with you for sure. But you're not going to get that luxury wedding in Italy or Cabo that you're looking at getting. And I'm guilty of this.

Kevin Dennis (: 05:57

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 06:07

not going to say that is negative thing, but I'm guilty of this. I did really beautiful Batmitsva very recently and it's on my feed and it's one of the first posts. And I just sat with the amazing wedding planner for lunch and we started talking and we've been in contact for like probably six months, something like this.

Kevin Dennis (: 06:24

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 06:30

We started talking about things and I brought up a wedding and she's like, you do weddings.

And I literally have one or two posts on my Instagram that are about mitzvahs. But this is what comes up first, and this is what person pays attention to. And I did maybe 20 mitzvahs and 500 weddings, but this is what a person sees. So we cannot blame others for them not seeing what we do if we're not showing that.

Kevin Dennis (: 06:44

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 07:07

And if you are looking to shoot dark and moody weddings, do not put light and airy photo that you did in Italy at the style shoot. If a person is in New York, for example, right? And in New York, we have a lot of very dark, very moody, hard to shoot at venues.

Kevin Dennis (: 07:18

Wow.

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 07:29

And to anyone from New York like Che Priani and New York Public Library, the plaza, they all will not be light and bright. None of it. People who look into shoot, like to do weddings at those venues. Planners who want people to weddings in those venues. People or planners who want a florist or floral designer.

Kevin Dennis (: 07:38

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 07:56

to decorate wedding in that venue, they will look for that. They will not look for your wedding done on the beach and decorate it with like very beautiful pink and white flowers. Because if this is what you do, you are telling, I'm not from New York. I might wanna be, but you are not from New York. You don't know how to behave in dark venue. And you certainly don't have the experience even if you ever been there.

Kevin Dennis (: 08:14

Mwuhuh

Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 08:25

So we definitely attract what we put out there. And yeah, this is to start. If you guys want to do weddings that are of the certain style, do not complain about not getting them, go and get those weddings. You can do work for free. You can assist someone for portfolio to have that.

And definitely, and I wanted to talk about that later, do not use styled shoots for that because anyone can see right through that.

Kevin Dennis (: 08:52

No.

Yeah, I think they really can. So, all right. So how can a vendor move from a booked event schedule that makes them feel uninspired to landing their ideal client?

Julian Ribinik (: 09:08

legwork, legwork, and legwork, and let's work. And this is not something that people want to hear.

Really, like back in the day, it was very easy, especially if you are not in major hub to put out work, to be first on Google and get up there. And it might still be correct for some small place. It's very hard to be on the radar for.

anything that is large, LA, New York, Chicago, it's really hard. There are other people there, not tens, there's thousands of other vendors who want to be there, and there people who spend a lot of money on SEO. That said, SEO not necessarily will put you where you want to be because nowadays people want proof.

Kevin Dennis (: 09:55

Mmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 09:56

And the proof is in actual work. So doing the set style sessions, doing all those collabs that are not real work, they might lend you jobs of people who really don't do research.

Kevin Dennis (: 10:07

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 10:11

they might lend you jobs on the lower side where people do not see that it is actually style true, that this is not real, but people who are real, people who pay attention to little details, they will want proof and the proof is show me the work in this and this and this venue.

give me recommendations of people who did that, show me reviews and show me work behind the scenes, which usually is not being put out. Meaning, how many vendors do we see that put out actual work during the real wedding? And it's very easy for me to put out and drop someone under the bus, like photographers and videographers.

Kevin Dennis (: 10:46

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 10:55

If I am choosing my second tour for the said Cipriani wedding or Gotham Hall or something that is really hard and dark, I don't need pictures of a bride and groom very much styled somewhere outside or even inside. I'm going to look for your worst reception work in a dark venue and most of the time you don't see it on any website.

Kevin Dennis (: 11:17

Hmm.

Mmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 11:25

and I'm saying that after being burned couple of times, two or three years ago, when I really needed a second photographer, I went and asked the community and I was recommended a couple of people that I knew in the network, but then I worked with them or saw their work. You go on Instagram, you see there's Vogue, there's Tatler, beautiful work.

15,000 followers, 25,000 followers. At this point I have six. And you say, that person must be good.

Kevin Dennis (: 11:54

Hehehe

Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 12:01

I did go with social proof, meaning people told me this person is great. I met that person a couple of times, they're great. And not saying once, twice I did it. Hired person went to wedding, after the wedding you're looking at the pictures from reception, it's horrible.

Kevin Dennis (: 12:17

Hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 12:19

And then I realized that, I never looked at their reception work. And when you look at the reception work, for one, it wasn't existing. And the person actually moved to New York a year ago.

And the second person said, well, I'm really only doing it for six months. And they invested a lot of money in style shoots and ads.

Kevin Dennis (: 12:45

Wow.

Julian Ribinik (: 12:46

And we're talking 15,000 followers. So I wasn't smart enough, but if we're looking at someone who is in the hiring position, working with a planner, the planner will see right through that. And we all now know, especially with all that backlash, that if you have Vogue, and this is not a celebrity party or a couple, it's paid.

Kevin Dennis (: 12:52

Wow.

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 13:12

I just got an email from Tatler with fourth follow-up today in the morning asking if I'm ready to move forward with an ad. But guys, it's really important to understand that you can go and do beautiful style shoots. You can do very invested ads, but when you're doing the actual work and people do not see

Kevin Dennis (: 13:21

Hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 13:38

the consistency, they will not recommend you. They will not put your name forward, be it a client or a planner, and you will not move forward with anything. And this is why we see a lot of people who have beautiful portrait portfolio.

Kevin Dennis (: 13:40

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 13:57

with different publications on that still complaining all the time about lack of work because that is not enough. What is enough is being really trained in what you want to do and if beautiful outside portraits is what you want to do, do those weddings and you'll be great at that. But being in unpredictable situations with bad lighting is bad for photographer.

Kevin Dennis (: 14:03

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 14:23

For florists, you really need to know how your designs will look like in certain lighting and how they will photograph. So you cannot put outside work of in Mexico on the beach and say, I want to have a New York or even Miami venue inside because it's not going to look like that.

Kevin Dennis (: 14:33

you

Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 14:49

And it comes back to you want to do a lot of free work. You want to find people who want to help you or you click with to go and do free work, cheap work in the situations and conditions where you want to work so you can consistently show that work and understand that people do not hire people for nice pictures.

Kevin Dennis (: 15:14

Yeah. Well, it's kind of funny. So a couple things you said, legwork, legwork, legwork made me think it's a lot. Lots of things that you did, but also it's also you need to get out there and get your education. So like when I started my business, I went out and I I worked, got sub, you know, contracted out to do a lot of AV work, because that's something that I wanted to build, you know, and get more like during the week corporate work. And so I, know, you know, I got paid half of what I should get paid.

but I was working at the big venues, know, and the big places in San Francisco and, and, you know, and I was working with, you know, flame famous clients out like the very first event I ever did for him. Bill Gates was one of the speakers, you know, so like instantly I'm like, wow, this is a different level, but it was also, I considered it education. Like I was learning how to handle clients. was learning how to do things. So I think that's part of what I think what you're going with is that

It's you gotta think of it as education and not that you're just doing it for free and you know and you know, I think you got it. Like you said, you gotta put in the time to get what you really want.

Julian Ribinik (: 16:21

Correct, and doing those things is definitely education. Because when you go to the conditions and situations in the venue you never worked at, and you want to do good work there, you have to learn. You have to learn how to do it, how to work with conditions, but not only that. If you want to work in a certain venue, you need to know people who work at that venue. You need to know how to operate.

Kevin Dennis (: 16:25

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 16:48

and conduct yourself. You need to understand how to dress. You need to understand how to behave with these people, with this kind of clientele. Because even when you're getting on the call with clients that you want to work with and they don't feel it, you're done. And it takes time and it takes understanding. And guess what? Not everyone will be fit because maybe you don't dress the way like you need to be for that.

Kevin Dennis (: 16:50

Mmm. Yeah.

you

Yeah.

Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 17:16

Maybe you don't speak like that. Maybe your language is not, you know, I don't want to say elevated, but like it's different. And people like people who are like them.

Kevin Dennis (: 17:24

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I agree. something so back to the legwork, legwork, legwork that resonated with me. It also I immediately thought of relationships, you know, and so I know you work really hard because I watch on your Instagram. You know, you're involved with WIPA, Merge. You know, you're out there working, you know, and networking and building your relationships. I mean, is that a lot of it, too? You know, like where people are really getting, you know, like

Getting people to understand where what you do and referrals and all those fun things that come from relationships.

Julian Ribinik (: 18:08

Absolutely. And I think that networking was everyone's favorite. People like here, you need to go network. And they sometimes try. A lot of people try. Problem is that people expect to get work from going to event or being a member somewhere. But just like in life,

Kevin Dennis (: 18:13

Mm-hmm.

Mm-mm.

Julian Ribinik (: 18:30

everything is a relationship and the important part is that it's not that you need to network to get the work. You need to be a great person to work with. You need to be a great friend. You need to care about others for others to even think of talking to you.

Kevin Dennis (: 18:41

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 18:51

I would say that my networking career is very short. It's probably two or three years, but the networking part of it is not for networking.

Kevin Dennis (: 19:07

He

Julian Ribinik (: 19:08

When people go to events and they like, I'm going to find that planner or that florist or that venue sales director or owner, whatever. And I'm going to talk to them and give them my business card. They already made the mistake. They should just stay home because the second you do it, you will be all that another guy who wants something from me. And that's the problem. So I really like.

Kevin Dennis (: 19:23

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree.

Julian Ribinik (: 19:35

I did consulting in a couple of coaching sessions on networking and people were like, tell me how to attract people so they work with me. You can't. If that is your intention, you will never be that person. The second you come to a group of people say, hey, I am this and like, what do you do? People already don't want to work with you right away because people are not there to get new contacts or...

Kevin Dennis (: 19:56

Correct.

Julian Ribinik (: 20:02

Like if we're talking about planner, planner doesn't go to networking event to find another photographer or another makeup artist. They have plenty. They don't need anyone. What they do want is to connect with people, to have good time, to enjoy it. So if you're going to events, go to enjoy the events, go to get education, go to listen to what others do, go to study from them.

Kevin Dennis (: 20:23

Hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 20:29

and maybe you will make friends. And if you make friends, they might want to be around you. And we shouldn't aim to talk to certain people or talk to people of certain category. Because if you do that, you are there for business, you are very transparent. And even though this advice sounds like a business advice, it is not.

Kevin Dennis (: 20:52

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 20:53

It's

just like with relationships. Like you don't want to work with a person who doesn't have your back. You don't want to work with a person who you don't know. Hell, this, like even a plumber for my house, I had to go through a lot of things and to also understand he's a nice guy. Right? And people used to not care. I want to know that he'll be okay with my dog.

Kevin Dennis (: 21:12

Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 21:21

with my kids and just I can trust the person around. If someone is going to give you work, you really need to be someone people can trust. But people are very smart, so if you try to earn the trust by doing dirty things, well, there's plenty of people on the market. Everyone knows how not smart people look, how bad people look, and there's again a lot of bad actors.

Kevin Dennis (: 21:24

Yeah.

Mm.

Julian Ribinik (: 21:49

If you want to have great long-term position in the market, just go and make friends. this is like, think this is the only thing that will do things for you.

Kevin Dennis (: 22:00

And you're so right about that because it's there's people that walk around and they just start handing out their business card to everyone and and your people are going to take it and probably throw it in the in the trash because they're like at the end of the night they're like I don't even know who this person is why why do I yeah yeah why do I have their business card in my hand but it's about I have a theory and I

Julian Ribinik (: 22:14

the second encounter at Rascam for sure.

Kevin Dennis (: 22:22

I think there's a lot of truth to my theory, but I really think it's a two to three year. And like you were saying, your networking career, you know, you're two, three years in, but I really feel it's like year end of year two, year three is when you start seeing, you know, the fruits of your labor really come to fruition. know, your people have made contacts with you, you know, you've developed relationships and then they know that you're a good person. And then that's when they'll start.

All right, they'll give you a little piece of business here or hey, maybe I can work with you on this project and then before you know it, you know you're in like Flynn and back in the day, know, we when networking is kind of unfortunately in the Bay Area, know in San Francisco Bay Area is kind of dead right now Julian and so but back in the day, but back in the day we would go into the city and there would be a group of us that would all go in and one of the wineries here.

Julian Ribinik (: 23:09

Come here.

Kevin Dennis (: 23:17

Is very famous went to vineyards and like literally people would walk up to the girls and and we would we would almost like make a joke out of it How many times is someone going to walk up to you tonight and go? How do I get on your preferred vendor list like the first words out of their mouth, you know? You're not by saying that you know, it just you know, but anyway, so a lot of truth in what you just said there and I think People don't realize when they join a group or join an association they're in it

Julian Ribinik (: 23:30

Bye guys.

Kevin Dennis (: 23:46

They gotta have a long game. And if you if you're in it for the short time, then you should never like you said, never even come or never even go so.

Julian Ribinik (: 23:54

100%. like what I want to kind of mention that when you go into these events, people come to rest and enjoy. They're not going there to talk shop unless it's some kind of like very low end group that like, is the only let's all meet and network, which you will not see in like luxury market at all.

Kevin Dennis (: 24:10

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 24:21

People have plenty of work, believe it or not. People are busy and when they are not they have other things to do. They are not coming to seek to help someone. When you're coming in and you are desperate and like I need work, no, people understand that you actually are not there to be in any relationship and people will turn their back on you and you will be upset that like everyone here is a bitch.

Kevin Dennis (: 24:27

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 24:47

right, for the lack of a better word.

I think.

relationships are everything and I want to kind of say take it outside of the wedding industry think about friends and relationship you have outside how did you get friends was it by being kind of like hey I want to be a friend and I need help with something right it never happens did you ever got a job because you came there's like I need work

Kevin Dennis (: 25:03

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Hehehehehe

Julian Ribinik (: 25:21

like if we worked in corporate and you got work or begged someone who doesn't know you to get it. Did you ever get good grades in school by asking for good grades from the teacher? Or did you get a degree by just paying your way through in the college? No, every single thing requires work.

And sometimes it's intentional and sometimes it's not. If you study, you might get results. If you go in and try and push in for work, you will not get results unless it's some kind of very low end work. And we are in the business not doing that. I mean, I get it. There are vendors who are working in a very different realm.

There venues who will you know, you want to get on the list? Sure, give me five five thousand dollars and you're on the list by the way doesn't guarantee work still but that industry exists And I'm lucky enough to never to be there but I hear that all the time but if You are someone who is constantly complaining about these people are giving work and clients are gusting me and

Kevin Dennis (: 26:09

No.

Julian Ribinik (: 26:29

You know and people at the venue don't want to talk to me look at yourself look at the mirror say am I genuine and I do what you really want to be their friend or do you want something from them and Then flip the mirror and say like would you give anything to a person who just comes for you to suppose something and They don't really care about you and everyone will say no, of course not. So don't be that person

Kevin Dennis (: 26:48

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 26:55

When we go out with industry friends, we don't talk about work altogether. And one of my first rule, like never ask person what they do.

Kevin Dennis (: 27:00

Mm-mm.

Julian Ribinik (: 27:08

because it's not going to your purpose at all. Go, rest, relax, have a drink, talk about whatever. Because why? Because in this industry, we are working hours that are not realistic. We're working days that are not normal, and we really do lack human connection. So I'm going out and having fun.

Kevin Dennis (: 27:10

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 27:34

on the weekdays when other people work at industry events because I purely enjoy it. I love my industry friends. I love to hear good education and I hate to hear bad education, right? Like all of us. And we kind of creating this life for ourselves because this is our circle. This is our life. And

Kevin Dennis (: 27:37

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 27:59

If I'm going to give work to someone, it's not going to be because they are an amazing vendor. It's going to be because I trust them, because I know them for long time, because we have a great connection and I enjoy being around them. Believe it or not, there's so many great planners. There's so many great designers. Everyone is an amazing photographer. Everyone. Every DJ is an amazing DJ.

Kevin Dennis (: 28:15

Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 28:28

if you didn't hear 10 of them playing and could compare. And no one compares, right? You like what you like and you don't know what's better unless you tasted the better thing. But you will be inclined to give something to someone who you have any good time with, who you can trust with and who you don't need to talk shop with.

Kevin Dennis (: 28:33

Yeah.

Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 28:54

And if you think about that, then most of people should just drop their networking altogether and go run ads and hope for something and others be human and treat others like you would treat yourself.

Kevin Dennis (: 29:08

Yeah, it's funny. I thought I always joke that, you know, do it. Working a wedding is like going to war, you know, and you want to have your friends and everyone that you can go to battle with because, you know, you don't know what you're going to encounter on the day of a wedding day. And, know, like Julian, we're working together and I see that you need help moving a bag because you're, know, like I'm going to come help you, you know, kind of thing. and

You vice versa, you see the photographer struggling or floor struggling to get some flowers up a elevator, you whatever it is and you're like, that's my friend. I'm going to go help, you know, because I because I can, you know, kind of thing. And we're all in it together for team couple. But in the end, you but you have one bad creative partner vendor on the team. It just makes the day long and hard and you don't want to be even want to even be there.

Julian Ribinik (: 30:00

I love that you're saying that because we are all partners. If you're doing an event for a couple...

Kevin Dennis (: 30:03

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 30:09

I see a lot of time where vendor comes, they are by themselves, they are talking within their team, like it's maybe the same person, and they are trying not to be with anyone else, and they do their work, and they go home. And then they complain that no one is liking them, that they don't have work and things like that. But, or they complain about other vendors doing something to the client or to them.

Kevin Dennis (: 30:18

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 30:34

The problem is that if you are doing the wedding, you are not an island. You are part of the team if you want it or not. You can either make it better and have a team relationships, work together, give the best service to the client, best experience to the client. And guess what? You will have the best experience as well. Or you can be that grumpy guy who complains, we didn't get the food on time.

Kevin Dennis (: 30:40

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mwahahahah

Julian Ribinik (: 31:02

Who cares about the food?

The planner was screaming at me. Did you do everything that you need to? Where are you on time? Where you should be? Right? The floor is left garbage. like we can complain about many things. The DJ didn't play the music long enough for me to capture enough of the dance. Maybe you're not good enough. Maybe you can't anticipate, but maybe also can communicate with DJ.

Kevin Dennis (: 31:09

Yeah.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 31:31

when I'm doing a wedding a month ahead of time, reaching out to the client or to the planner and I'm getting all the list of all the vendors and I connect with everyone. And the great part that at this point, at least in our area, I know most of the vendors. And I'm like, hey, we're doing this wedding together, great. And for newer people, they will be so much better. Like Kevin, you just mentioned like going to war and being a team.

Kevin Dennis (: 31:40

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 31:58

But if it's a team and you know people and you're friends, you're not going to work. You're going to have good fun. Great fun. You're going to enjoy the day and maybe you'll be a little tired, which I can talk about hours too in a different situation. But it's not going to be a war. It's going to be a great day. And it's all happening because you're treating others like people and not like vendors.

Kevin Dennis (: 32:03

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I. Well, yeah, yeah, and it's just like I don't know. It's if we all go in there with a positive attitude and we are on team couple like then we're all going to get through it together and like I'm not in there with my own agenda. You're not in there. You know, like I can think of like a photographer that just literally took a couple out of the venue and went because they found a tree down the road that they wanted to do a portrait photo with them.

Julian Ribinik (: 32:25

or enemies or competition.

Kevin Dennis (: 32:53

But never told anyone you know what I'm saying? So like they're not on team couple and you're going to make the venue mad because they don't know where it's going on. You know there's so many ripple effects that I don't think people people realize when they're working together and it's just like be nice, be friendly, let's work together. You know and then it's you're excited when you see that person you walk in the room. Hey Julian, good to see you. I'm excited to be with you. You know like it's it you know and it gives you good energy. You know it brings you good.

Where you're going. So anyway, yeah, yeah. And that's where I think a lot of people really, really mess up in our industry. there, it's the negative stuff.

Julian Ribinik (: 33:24

100 % 100 % it's a...

They do. There's certain podcasts, I'm not going to mention the name, but it's very, very known one. ⁓ Not in a luxury industry where people constantly bring up different hot takes and different issues and like kind of showing in every possible way why they cannot work in the higher end industry without realizing them.

Kevin Dennis (: 33:38

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 34:01

They bashing planners, they talking about vendor mails, right? They talking about venues that not treating them right and things like that. And all of that shows how much not a team player you are.

Kevin Dennis (: 34:14

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 34:17

which is supposed to be an opposite. If you go to a normal gathering, no one is bashing anyone. No one is complaining about anything. No one says, my God, I need to work all those long hours and my feet hurt.

Kevin Dennis (: 34:23

No, no, yeah

Julian Ribinik (: 34:34

And I did say once I wrote something about like, well, like when I was 90 pounds more, I also had, you know, like eggs and I was tired and whatever. And now I'm not like, and they kicked me out. But bottom line is everything that is happening to us is a self-inflicted damage. And there are very easy ways to fix them if we look inside and not outside.

Kevin Dennis (: 34:51

Yeah.

Yeah. All right. So I'm going to, so speaking of negativity, what are some things that we should avoid posting on social media or things that, you know, you would turn down because you want to attract that, you know, ideal client, you know, like what are, what are some of that negative stuff that we should avoid?

Julian Ribinik (: 35:17

well, I can probably build a very long list of those things. But for example, for example, right, like I see a lot of vendors and by the way, it doesn't pertain to photographers guys, ⁓ or the days for that purpose since we are from those, right? People say, I only have two or three dates left this year and fully booked for that year booking for 2027. Now you will never see busy people posting those things.

Kevin Dennis (: 35:27

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 35:46

You only see people who trying to show that they're busy. But guys, no one cares if you're busy or not. And people see that you're desperate and if you're showing that you're desperate, they will not give you because if you're desperate, you're clearly not good enough. People who want to have destination weddings,

posting a list of destinations they travel into this year or next year, or like this is my travel schedule, and yet in their portfolio, you don't see any of the destinations. And there's plenty of that, right? I'm doing this, I'm taking creative vacation in Italy, Spain, whatever, but all you see is...

Kevin Dennis (: 36:16

really? my-

Julian Ribinik (: 36:31

some wedding in the field in Oklahoma repeating it itself and some style shoots, right? People when they have no work, they post like taking a sabbaton or sabbatical. But again, it might work on some very low end client. And then you will have to post photos from that very low end client wedding or keep on doing those social media posts.

Kevin Dennis (: 36:40

Mm.

Hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 36:57

Other things, people who are, instead of being helpful to couples, writing some negative things about industry.

Kevin Dennis (: 37:07

And there's a lot of that going on right now with all like yeah, yeah

Julian Ribinik (: 37:09

And there's so much that is going on.

People who are complaining about others using ads or saying, know, like all this British Vogue, it's all paid. So you should be aware of that. if you see, and then you go to that portfolio and guess what, what they have, they have British Vogue too, right? They just frustrated that others do get jobs. People who post off list what they don't like about other vendors.

Kevin Dennis (: 37:16

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Mmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 37:39

And again, there's plenty of that.

things like, well.

And I'll go for planners. Planners who write things. like, you know, like there's venue coordinators and there's planners and vetting coordinators from the venue. They will not do this and this and this and this for you. Guess what people from that venue or any venue will think of you as a planner afterwards, right?

Kevin Dennis (: 38:01

Yeah.

Yeah, no. Yeah, negative.

Julian Ribinik (: 38:12

good planners don't complain about those things because they don't have a problem with that. Those things, like those venues with Koreans, they're not their competition.

Kevin Dennis (: 38:16

Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 38:26

photographers who complain about videographers, videographers who complain about content creators, right? DJs who complain about content creators, photo booth people who complain about DJs because DJs sell photo booth. Be better, show your difference. It's all about you and it's not about anyone else. If someone else is getting your job, they are better at something, better marketing, better at social media, selling it, better person.

Kevin Dennis (: 38:40

Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 38:52

whatever, but it's not them, it's you. Who cannot do that?

Kevin Dennis (: 38:55

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, so true.

Julian Ribinik (: 39:00

vendors who need to justify their price by writing out what they do on social media. I worth more because I have this and this and this equipment because I spend more money on education. Like no one cares what you do. Absolutely no one, not other vendors, not the client.

Kevin Dennis (: 39:15

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 39:24

unless it's someone really really low end and then they don't care about anything else but the price and guys if the only difference between the other vendor and you is the price difference or at least this is what the client sees then you are not good enough because you're really not bringing anything else to the table you need to be different you need to stand out and

Kevin Dennis (: 39:31

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 39:52

It's very bare truth that people do not understand this, but you are not going to be higher end vendor because you are so much better as an artist or a vendor.

Kevin Dennis (: 40:06

Mm.

Julian Ribinik (: 40:09

Because if you look at work of 10 planners or 10 photographers or 10 videographers, with DJs it's even harder because you cannot see it. You can listen to something, but you need to actually experience 10 DJs at the venues, at the event, at a certain point to say, this is where the value is. This is why they are there.

Kevin Dennis (: 40:17

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 40:36

And you can't. So most of the time, people who are getting the job, people who are doing higher end work, those are people with better communication skills and who provide better service to a client.

Kevin Dennis (: 40:51

And I also think it's people that develop relationships with other people because then, you know, like, you know, say I'm in your market and I'm going to be like, you have to work with Julian. my God. I think you'd be a perfect couple for Julian. And I sometimes that relation or that what I just said there will seal the deal. You know, like they'll go find you because I've, they've built a rapport with me and now they're like, he's referring me to him that there must be, you know, something great there.

You know it and it and you can tell like that happens to me when I meet with clients and I always ask him like you know hey where you guys at how you know where do you need help with any other you know vendors or you know what are you working on and sometimes I go I need help with a florist or tell me a little bit what you're looking for and then I'm like here's two or three that I think might be good for you and send them on the way and I get you know and people love it because you wouldn't its relationship.

But then it comes back to you. But also it just you're helping the client out and you're putting together a good team, you know? Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 41:52

100 %

and like if you're not available or cannot do it or don't want to do it recommend someone else to Do not walk away and it's a very Bad mindset of a victim and very scarce person when people say I'm busy on this day But I'm not going to recommend anyone else because they are competition The amount of work I get from other photographers is insane

Kevin Dennis (: 42:01

Yeah

Yeah.

Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 42:21

And in my couple of first two years, was kind I'm the shit, pardon my French. I'm the artist. No one is better than me.

doesn't exist.

Kevin Dennis (: 42:33

No, and it's I think it's healthy to have great relationships with your competitors, you know, because if you like for that, what you just said there is if you're booked and you can't work anymore, well, I'm going to refer X, Y and Z, you know, and hopefully when they're in the same situation, they're going to send it back, you know, and it just you're building a good community that.

Julian Ribinik (: 42:57

Yes, and not even for that. Sometimes and more often than we can guess, we need help. We need a replacement. We need someone else on the team. Do you want to work with someone is mediocre or not good one? like in their profession, you want someone who is the best on your team or instead of you. And if people don't like you.

Kevin Dennis (: 43:15

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 43:21

or you are not liking other people, you will have no options. You will be out of them. If I'm searching for second photographer now, or if I need a replacement, or I want to have someone white label in me, I want the best. And I will pay even like losing money, but do the best for my client. And this is just normal.

Kevin Dennis (: 43:42

Yeah, I agree. Alright, we're getting to the end, so we gotta wrap up, but I wanted to ask you as we wrap up, you know what other suggestions do you have for someone to increase their presence to attract higher price point clients?

Julian Ribinik (: 43:59

Be relatable for those clients. Be relatable for people who bring that work. Understand where your client comes from. And here's a shout out to Sam Jacobson. We need to know how to talk to a specific person. So at first you need to understand who is your ideal client. And I hope that in the higher end industry you really know who is your client.

Kevin Dennis (: 44:00

Mmm.

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 44:23

So for example, I can say that my typical client is a doctor, a lawyer, a finance person, that parents are paying for their wedding. I can easily say that because this is the majority of my clients. I know what attracts the clients that I like in our work. And it's not necessarily work too. I know what attracts them in my behavior.

Kevin Dennis (: 44:34

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 44:49

how to act near them, how to relate to them, how to talk to them. You can't want specific niche client to work with you if you saw them on the picture. Go where they are. Read what they read. Listen what they listen. Wear what they wear.

Kevin Dennis (: 45:03

Yeah.

Hmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 45:10

understand their values, learn about those people, know to have the conversation with that people.

Kevin Dennis (: 45:19

Yeah.

Julian Ribinik (: 45:21

because otherwise you just cannot be in the same circle and no one will work with you in that circle for that specific reason. So it comes back to do the legwork. Everything that you want to excel at you need to study and doing your specific work is just a little piece of the puzzle. You want to be a part of that circle as well.

Kevin Dennis (: 45:32

Mm-hmm.

Good advice. All right, sir. I can't thank you enough. Um, we, feel like we could have talked about this forever, like, cause it's so relevant and what's going on right now with everyone in the industry. So I really, really thank you for bringing this topic to us. And yeah, I really, really, really did do. Uh, but, uh, one thing I've been asking people lately, I'm going to throw you a little curve ball here is, what, is your favorite app you're using right now for your business?

Julian Ribinik (: 46:02

My pleasure.

Kevin Dennis (: 46:16

If you have one.

Julian Ribinik (: 46:17

wow.

wow. I would have to look on my phone what I'm using the most because that would be on my screen because I don't remember.

Kevin Dennis (: 46:22

Ahahaha!

Julian Ribinik (: 46:26

Is Instagram the right thing to say? I would say this that, um, and it might be a surprise, but since the age of, or era of networking for me, Instagram became crazy busy. I wake up to a ton of messages, a lot of following there and, um, a lot of communication and the other would be superhuman. It's an email client with built-in IAI that

Kevin Dennis (: 46:28

Yeah, Instagram's fine. Yeah.

Mmm.

Julian Ribinik (: 46:56

I think the strongest part of it that it will never let me forget to reply to an email.

or follow up. It creates automatic follow ups if it recognizes that you are waiting for something or you promise to send something. It creates automatic draft and it pops up and you can you like you really cannot miss it. The only downside is like if you really didn't mean to write anything.

Kevin Dennis (: 47:06

I love it.

Mmm!

Well, see you people.

Julian Ribinik (: 47:30

and it learns your language. So I wouldn't recommend to use automated replies at all.

Kevin Dennis (: 47:35

Yeah,

I agree.

Julian Ribinik (: 47:38

You will have to alter them because they sound horrible, but having that reminder that you actually need to follow up, need to send someone that you promised, this is a game changer.

Kevin Dennis (: 47:51

Wow, I love it. I'm gonna look into it. love, I love, right now I love all the AI stuff, cause it's just about saving time. like for you, it's like, like you were saying, it's like, remind me, help me, you know. And especially if it even writes out a little, little blurb or something, that's really, really great. So, cause then you can change it, put it in your own tone, and then eventually it'll learn your, it'll learn your words and all that as well. So.

Julian Ribinik (: 48:15

That's absolutely a game changer. One thing that I do want to bring is my pet peeve right now. I see so many posts on Instagram and social media that from the first sentence it's clear. They just put it in chat. Jpt wrote it, copy pasted and it's horrible. And the more you do it, the more people will see it because the more people who use it will see through. So guys write authentic stuff.

Kevin Dennis (: 48:29

Yeah.

I agree.

I agree. All right, Julian, how do our audience get a hold of you?

Julian Ribinik (: 48:47

Very easy, I'm at Julien Rubinik with all eyes on Instagram and you can find me on www.julienrubenikweddings.com

Kevin Dennis (: 48:56

Alright, perfect and will have all of Julian's information in our show notes. Julian, I can't thank you enough. You're you're one of my favorite people to interview, so I really, really enjoy having you on here with with us. So I really, really appreciate it, sir. So thank you so much and we will folks will see you next time. I mind your wedding business. Bye guys.

Julian Ribinik (: 49:06

Thank you so much. Happy to be here.

See you guys.